Re: [nas] Hey Bruce -- p!ss off!

[Casbahman@aol.com]

In a message dated 9/19/2002 11:17:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time, klindstr@flash.net writes:


> Re: (1) -- name me 10 players who aren't playing in MLS because of players with green cards?  Heck, name me one.  Go by the Seattle Sounders or Rochester Rhinos -- if there really is this big issue out there, then surely on the two best teams in the A-League (genrally, anyway) there is a player or two who has lost their job to a green carded player... right?



I don't profess any knowledge of the A-League nor its players so I can't answer the question.  I don't know that it is neceessary though.  The bottom line is that actual game time in the best league you can possibly play in is the best way to develop.  You can't deny that a league with 10 green-carded players takes 10 spots away from players with potential to play on the US team.  Take a bubble player like Eddie Lewis.  When Eddie arrived in MLS, he was all speed and little talent.  Gametime gave him his opportunity.  Would he have made the Clash roster, let alone get any playing time if the Clash had 3 or 4 green-carded players?  Without the opportunity, we may never have seen the beautiful cross to Donovan for the second goal against Mexico.  Now he is languishing in England while riding the bench.  Being surrounded by all that talent isn't exactly helping his development is it?



> To compare where MLS is now to the NASL is more than a bit of a stretch, don't you think?


I wasn't really comparing, simply pointing out that the NASL did not give american players the chance to develop.  I was only 14 when the league folded but it didn't seem that the NASL's priority was developing US talent.  MLS has acknowledged that it is important

> Re:(2) -- if you want to develop potential, they have to play with players who know the game.  Even if you have all of the best USians come over, you still need more players who know the game and how to be professionals to make it work.


Agreed.  But how many of these superior foreign players are needed to make that impact?  Is three enough?  What about 5?

Now, here I will use the NASL.  Didn't the NASL require at least 5 US players on each roster?  Why don't we do that?  5 US players, the rest SIs and green-carders.  Certainly those 5 will be saturated with the knowledge from all of that talent, right?  Think of the quality of the US player pool then!  We might win the WC.

I'm being a smart ass but you get my point, right?  According to your logic, we should put a minimum of US players and fill the rosters with other seasoned foreign talent.

If I had to come up with a crude number, I would say have no more than 5 players per team (whatever combination of green carders & SIs) and have the rest be US Nat eligible.  I think that is adequate in order to have enough playing time for USians to develop while also absorbing soccer knowledge from foreign players.

> And quite frankly, to get cheesed off at someone because they buy into America enough to get a green card is a slap in the face.


DUDE!  Get a grip.  This is the whole quote from the article:"The green-card ruling is not in the best interests of the national team. Look at Dallas. How many of those guys are Americans? But that's life."     

Where the hell does it say he is anti-immigrant?  That is what you are intimating.  His commentary was directly soccer related.  Stop reading prejudistic sentiments into it.  Christ.  You seem like you want to put him on trial for a hate crime for crying out loud.


> Let's take another example -- DMB.  A great MLS player now, obviously one with talent worth of the MNT.  But when he started in MLS, he was as immature as they come.  Again, not through any fault of his own -- the guy was young.  Unfortunately for LA, they traded him right before he came into his own.  But do you think that DMB would be half the player he is now without Hristo and Peter?


Yea, couldn't be the influence of the coach, eh?  Or any number of players.  You might as well say Richard Mulrooney is the player he is today because Khodedad Azizi was on the team.  They may be related to DMB's development, they may not.


> Sure, pt is important.  But so is developing talent at the right pace.  It was good to see Bobby Convey score tonight (from a USian point of view -- certainly not from a Burn point of view) because since he joined the league and had a modicom of success early on, he has basically been non-existant.  I am sure that was real good for his development.


Huh?  Since he has playing time but has not developed, that proves your point?  You are reaching, really.  Where was the miraculous teachings of Etcheverry & Moreno?  I could just as easily, and just as ludicrously, use Bobby Convey to prove that foreign talent does not help develop US talent.  That argument would be ludicrous because there is no way I can quantify the impact of Etcheverry or Moreno on Convey.  Don't let facts get in the way of your argument though....




> But so is the right leadership.  I think the images that will stick with me most will be the bookends of the US games -- Earnie and Landon.  Once before the Portugal match and once after the Germany match.  And funny that, Earnie isn't exactly 100% American, is he?


So now Landon was the WC player that he was due to Earnie & the fact that Earnie isn't 100% American?  

I give up.

My point is that there is a balance.  You have to nurture talent with good coaching, good mentoring, (be it foreign or domestic) and playing time.  Bruce questioned the balance in MLS with one simple statement.  Then you intimate racist, or at least anti-foreigner tendencies in Bruce.  

Uncalled for and unfounded.  

> And yes, I do think that the divide between the middle-class, usually white-folk players and the foreign-born players is an issue that the Fed and MLS will have to address.


And this has to do with what in our discussion?



    Your example of Landon is a perfect one here.  If you know Landon like a Qlash 
> fan should, then you know he learned Spanish by playing with Hispanic players, not in a classroom or from family.


Dude, you are on your soapbox and there is no stopping you now so I'm not going to try.

  I think it is safe to say that a good bit of his playing style comes from that same 
> education group.  Why do you think his vision is so sharp?  Why do you think the mental side of his game is so far ahead of so many US players?


Well, if you knew Landon like us Qlash fans do, you would know that he thinks his vision is because his dad was a hockey player and had excellent vision.  But then, I guess you are right because in reality, Landon is a "middle-class, usually white-folk player" who doesn't appreciate all that his latin brothers have taught him.  His is in "middle-class, usually white-folk player" denial.  

I'm glad I'm married to a Mexican.  Otherwise, after your argument, I might feel guilty for being white.


Darrin