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Re: [nas] US Men rise to eighth inthe world in latest FIFA rankings
IMHO:
The numbers behind the rankings should have been
zero'ed out at the end of the World Cup. The rankings
at that point should have been the exact way they were
in the world Cup. THEN from there start pluggin in the
formulas for friendlies etc. The teams that did not
qualify for WC would be ranking all tied at one spot
below the last world cup ranking. Yes, I know Holland
could wipe the Saudi's butts all over the pitch, but
in this manner it would be fair and perhaps meaningful
when the rankings do come out in the post WC months.
If Holland wants to be higher than SA, then challenge
them to a friendly . . .
A coach's poll would be interesting too in addition to
this, but when I used to bet on pointy ball I never
put much stock in those things either.
Kirsten
--- Peter Welpton <peter@lexandterry.com> wrote:
>
> > I definitely don't think the FIFA rankings are
> generally realistic at
> > all, but they got lucky in this case and put us
> exactly where we
> > belong. It is as ridiculous for France to be
> ranked #2 right now as it
> > was ridiculous for them to be ranked #2 behind
> Brazil in the rankings
> > immediately after they won WC98 by beating Brazil
> by 3 goals. Mexico
> > being ahead of us is silly, but England shouldn't
> be behind us.
>
>
> Ok, well, I see. So, to you it is correct that the
> US is 8th, but it is not
> correct that in the same ranking system that France
> is #2, or that Mexico is
> ahead of the US and England is behind...
>
> Hmm.. So you seem to have a lot of differing
> opinions on other teams in the
> rankings, but NOT your home country's surprising
> rise to #8.... Fifa just
> happen to get THAT one right in your opinion?
>
> :) how convenient ( in my best 'churchlady')
>
> peet
>
>
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Thu Sep 19 08:32:21 2002
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Subject: [nas] MLS Newlinks 9-19 (27 articles-more Fire bad news, Loney, Cassar,
playoffs, Gansler guarantee)
From: <big_dog@fastmail.fm>
To: NAS <NAS@americakicks.com>
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Rasov listed day to day with should seperation
http://espn.go.com/soccer/news/2001/0109/1004502.html
Down to the wire-All MLS teams alive heading into final weekend
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/us/news/2002/09/18/mls_playoffs/
Metro's add Balboa, Cassar to roster
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/us/news/2002/09/18/metros_moves_ap
Gansler: Recovered KC will make playoffs
http://www.mlsnet.com/content/02/kc0918gansler.html
Naperville wants Fire back
http://www.mlsnet.com/content/02/chi0918naperville.html
Fire add Selolwane
http://www.mlsnet.com/content/02/chi0918selolwane.html
Loney: Opening soon, the Loney academy
http://www.cybersoccernews.com/columnists/loney/020919loney.shtml
Fire will stay in Naperville 2002-03
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/us/news/2002/09/18/fire_stadium
MLS Newsstand 09-19 (19)
http://www.mlsnet.com/content/02/mls0919newsstand.html
-- Hurt Burn showing character (Fort Worth Star-Telegram)
-- Burn needs a win vs. D.C. United to hold 4th (Dallas Morning News)
-- Burn-D.C. United preview (Dallas Morning News)
-- Notebook: Playoff picture far from clear for Crew, MLS (Columbus
Dispatch)
-- Big name joins the game (Denver Post)
-- U.S. Ranking Is All-Time Best (Los Angeles Times)
-- Earning power for Twellman (Boston Globe)
-- Twellman points the way (Boston Herald)
-- United Must Keep Fingers Crossed (Washington Post)
-- United's Big Three could get broken up (Washington Times)
-- Alavanja treated, released after car wreck (Northern Virginia Journal)
-- Quakes tie at 'Stick (Oakland Tribune)
-- Unsatisfying exhibition draw (San Francisco Chronicle)
-- Saturday showdown looms for 'Quakes (Contra Costa Times)
-- Fervent fans enjoy soccer exhibition (San Jose Mercury News)
-- MetroStars add pair (New York Post)
-- No. 2 goalie Grafer on the spot (New York Daily News)
-- MetroStars' home for potential playoffs: Newark (Star-Ledger)
-- Good, bad and ugly (San Francisco Examiner)
--MS_Mac_OE_3115269187_252461_MIME_Part
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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>MLS Newlinks 9-19 (27 articles-more Fire bad news, Loney, Cassar, pl=
ayoffs, Gansler guarantee)</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
Rasov listed day to day with should seperation<BR>
http://espn.go.com/soccer/news/2001/0109/1004502.html<BR>
<BR>
Down to the wire-All MLS teams alive heading into final weekend<BR>
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/us/news/2002/09/18/mls_playoffs/ <B=
R>
<BR>
Metro's add Balboa, Cassar to roster<BR>
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/us/news/2002/09/18/metros_moves_ap =
<BR>
<BR>
Gansler: Recovered KC will make playoffs<BR>
http://www.mlsnet.com/content/02/kc0918gansler.html<BR>
<BR>
Naperville wants Fire back<BR>
http://www.mlsnet.com/content/02/chi0918naperville.html<BR>
<BR>
Fire add Selolwane<BR>
http://www.mlsnet.com/content/02/chi0918selolwane.html <BR>
<BR>
Loney: Opening soon, the Loney academy<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>http://www.cybersoccernews.com/columnists/loney/020919loney.sht=
ml <BR>
<BR>
Fire will stay in Naperville 2002-03<BR>
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/us/news/2002/09/18/fire_stadium <BR=
>
<BR>
MLS Newsstand 09-19 (19)<BR>
http://www.mlsnet.com/content/02/mls0919newsstand.html<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3D"4"><B>--</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>Hurt Burn showing charact=
er </U></FONT>(Fort Worth Star-Telegram)<BR>
<B>--</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>Burn needs a win vs. D.C. United to hold=
4th </U></FONT>(Dallas Morning News)<BR>
<B>--</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>Burn-D.C. United preview </U></FONT>(Dal=
las Morning News)<BR>
<B>--</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>Notebook: Playoff picture far from clear=
for Crew, MLS </U></FONT>(Columbus Dispatch)<BR>
<B>--</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>Big name joins the game </U></FONT>(Denv=
er Post)<BR>
<B>--</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>U.S. Ranking Is All-Time Best </U></FONT=
>(Los Angeles Times)<BR>
<B>--</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#9D11B3"><U>Earning power for Twellman </U></FONT>(B=
oston Globe)<BR>
<B>--</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>Twellman points the way </U></FONT>(Bost=
on Herald)<BR>
<B>--</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>United Must Keep Fingers Crossed </U></F=
ONT>(Washington Post)<BR>
<B>--</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>United's Big Three could get broken up <=
/U></FONT>(Washington Times)<BR>
<B>--</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>Alavanja treated, released after car wre=
ck </U></FONT>(Northern Virginia Journal)<BR>
<B>--</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>Quakes tie at 'Stick </U></FONT>(Oakland=
Tribune)<BR>
<B>--</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>Unsatisfying exhibition draw </U></FONT>=
(San Francisco Chronicle)<BR>
<B>--</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>Saturday showdown looms for 'Quakes </U>=
</FONT>(Contra Costa Times)<BR>
</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"5">-</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"4"><B>-</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"=
><U>Fervent fans enjoy soccer exhibition </U></FONT>(San Jose Mercury News)<=
BR>
<B>--</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>MetroStars add pair </U></FONT>(New York=
Post)<BR>
<B>--</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>No. 2 goalie Grafer on the spot </U></FO=
NT>(New York Daily News)<BR>
<B>--</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>MetroStars' home for potential playoffs:=
Newark </U></FONT>(Star-Ledger)<BR>
<B>--</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>Good, bad and ugly </U></FONT>(San Franc=
isco Examiner)<BR>
</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"5"><BR>
</FONT><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
</BODY>
</HTML>
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Subject: [nas] US Soccer News Links 09-19-02
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 11:47:59 -0400
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US Soccer News Links 09-19-02
http://www.sams-army.com/index.php/Mlist=news/Nyear=2002/Nmonth=09/Nday=19
____________________________________
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ICQ: 1361610
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From: AbraRob@aol.com
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 12:50:54 EDT
Subject: [nas] And the MetroStars new playoff home is....
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METROSTARS TO HOST ALL 2002 MLS PLAYOFF
GAMES AT RIVERFRONT STADIUM IN NEWARK
SECAUCUS, NJ (September 19, 2002) - MetroStars President/General Manager
Nick Sakiewicz announced today that the team will host all of its potential
2002 MLS Cup playoff home games at intimate Riverfront Stadium in Newark,
NJ, should the MetroStars clinch their third straight postseason berth this
weekend in New England.
Giants Stadium, where the MetroStars have played all of their regular season
and playoff home games over their seven-year history, is unavailable to the
team for the first four potential 2002 playoff game dates (September 25, 26,
28 and 29) due to scheduling conflicts.
Bears and Eagles Riverfront Stadium, located directly off of Route 280 and
within a 50-yard walk of New Jersey Transit's Broad Street rail station, is
a state-of-the-art ballpark built in 1999 for minor league baseball's Newark
Bears. The stadium, configured to seat 6,200 fans for baseball, will be
temporarily reconfigured for the MetroStars to accommodate more than 8,500
fans, and possibly more, during the team's drive for the 2002 MLS Cup.
"While we would love to play our playoff games in the stadium where we have
played every one of our home games during our franchise's history, it is
unfortunately not an option we have," said Sakiewicz. "That being said, we
are absolutely thrilled to be able to bring our most important games of the
year into Riverfront Stadium and the city of Newark, which is not only a
hotbed of MetroStars supporters but is also incredibly easy to get to not
only by car but by various methods of mass transit.
"And on top of it all, we get the incredible, intimate atmosphere of
Riverfront Stadium, which should provide us with the perfect environment as
we try to bring home the MLS Cup."
Advance tickets for each MetroStars playoff game at Riverfront Stadium will
go on sale this Monday. All advance tickets will cost $25, and are available
by calling 1-888-4-METROTIX, the Newark Bears ticket line at 973-483-6900,
and at the Riverfront Stadium box office at 450 Broad Street in Newark. All
fans purchasing advance tickets through the MetroStars at 1-888-4-METROTIX
will also receive a Burger King value voucher, good for one free value meal
(sandwich, fries, soft drink), with each advance ticket purchased.
Advance tickets are also available at all local Ticketmaster outlets.
Tickets for all seats purchased on the day of the game or games, if
available, will cost $30.
As part of their season ticket package, all MetroMember season ticket
holders will receive the same number of seats that they own at Giants
Stadium at no additional charge for games at Riverfront Stadium. The
MetroStars will make every possible effort to relocate the seats of season
ticket holders in the best possible similar locations at Riverfront, though
the small confines of the park give every seat a great vantage point of the
playing field.
The MetroStars are currently in a three-way tie for sixth place in the MLS
Cup playoff race, with five teams vying for the final three spots in the
eight-team playoff race. The MetroStars (35 points) need only a tie on
Saturday to clinch their third straight playoff spot, and could know even
before game-time against New England (35 points) whether they have qualified
or not provided D.C. United (32 points) loses or ties tonight against
Dallas, along with Kansas City (35 points) losing at Colorado on Friday
night.
The MetroStars own the head-to-head, season-series tiebreaker edges over
both Kansas City (1-0-1) and New England (3-0-0 so far).
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Thu Sep 19 09:56:46 2002
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From: Jason Benfield <Jason.Benfield@genband.com>
To: nas@americakicks.com
Subject: RE: [nas] And the MetroStars new playoff home is....
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 11:56:49 -0500
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Are you kidding me? Attendance last week and the week before was really
impressive for the League, but to have this happen is certainly a blow to
the league. The metros need to get the hell out of giants stadium.
-----Original Message-----
From: AbraRob@aol.com [mailto:AbraRob@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 11:51 AM
To: nas@americakicks.com
Subject: [nas] And the MetroStars new playoff home is....
METROSTARS TO HOST ALL 2002 MLS PLAYOFF
GAMES AT RIVERFRONT STADIUM IN NEWARK
SECAUCUS, NJ (September 19, 2002) - MetroStars President/General Manager
Nick Sakiewicz announced today that the team will host all of its potential
2002 MLS Cup playoff home games at intimate Riverfront Stadium in Newark,
NJ, should the MetroStars clinch their third straight postseason berth this
weekend in New England.
Giants Stadium, where the MetroStars have played all of their regular season
and playoff home games over their seven-year history, is unavailable to the
team for the first four potential 2002 playoff game dates (September 25, 26,
28 and 29) due to scheduling conflicts.
Bears and Eagles Riverfront Stadium, located directly off of Route 280 and
within a 50-yard walk of New Jersey Transit's Broad Street rail station, is
a state-of-the-art ballpark built in 1999 for minor league baseball's Newark
Bears. The stadium, configured to seat 6,200 fans for baseball, will be
temporarily reconfigured for the MetroStars to accommodate more than 8,500
fans, and possibly more, during the team's drive for the 2002 MLS Cup.
"While we would love to play our playoff games in the stadium where we have
played every one of our home games during our franchise's history, it is
unfortunately not an option we have," said Sakiewicz. "That being said, we
are absolutely thrilled to be able to bring our most important games of the
year into Riverfront Stadium and the city of Newark, which is not only a
hotbed of MetroStars supporters but is also incredibly easy to get to not
only by car but by various methods of mass transit.
"And on top of it all, we get the incredible, intimate atmosphere of
Riverfront Stadium, which should provide us with the perfect environment as
we try to bring home the MLS Cup."
Advance tickets for each MetroStars playoff game at Riverfront Stadium will
go on sale this Monday. All advance tickets will cost $25, and are available
by calling 1-888-4-METROTIX, the Newark Bears ticket line at 973-483-6900,
and at the Riverfront Stadium box office at 450 Broad Street in Newark. All
fans purchasing advance tickets through the MetroStars at 1-888-4-METROTIX
will also receive a Burger King value voucher, good for one free value meal
(sandwich, fries, soft drink), with each advance ticket purchased.
Advance tickets are also available at all local Ticketmaster outlets.
Tickets for all seats purchased on the day of the game or games, if
available, will cost $30.
As part of their season ticket package, all MetroMember season ticket
holders will receive the same number of seats that they own at Giants
Stadium at no additional charge for games at Riverfront Stadium. The
MetroStars will make every possible effort to relocate the seats of season
ticket holders in the best possible similar locations at Riverfront, though
the small confines of the park give every seat a great vantage point of the
playing field.
The MetroStars are currently in a three-way tie for sixth place in the MLS
Cup playoff race, with five teams vying for the final three spots in the
eight-team playoff race. The MetroStars (35 points) need only a tie on
Saturday to clinch their third straight playoff spot, and could know even
before game-time against New England (35 points) whether they have qualified
or not provided D.C. United (32 points) loses or ties tonight against
Dallas, along with Kansas City (35 points) losing at Colorado on Friday
night.
The MetroStars own the head-to-head, season-series tiebreaker edges over
both Kansas City (1-0-1) and New England (3-0-0 so far).
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Thu Sep 19 10:44:42 2002
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From: "Backslider ." <backslider@hotmail.com>
To: nas@americakicks.com
Subject: Re: [nas] US Men rise to eighth inthe world in latest FIFA rankings
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 13:44:48 -0400
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What purpose would that serve? If people wanted to know the standings of
the World Cup, they could look it up on the FIFA web site. Having a
"ranking" that simply reflected the results of one tournament (even the
World Cup) is pointless.
The purpose of a ranking system, imo, should be to indicate which team is
better than which other team. I would define better as "expected to win a
majority of the time". The fact that we beat Spain in the World Cup is a
very useful data point. But it doesn't determine if we're better, by my
definition. The question is "Would the US beat Spain a majority of the time
(given current rosters, etc.)?" If the answer is no, then we should be
ranked lower than Spain.
Backslider
>From: Kirsten Tautfest <hori_too@yahoo.com>
>To: US Soccer List <nas@americakicks.com>
>Subject: Re: [nas] US Men rise to eighth inthe world in latest FIFA
>rankings
>Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 08:29:16 -0700 (PDT)
>
>IMHO:
>The numbers behind the rankings should have been
>zero'ed out at the end of the World Cup. The rankings
>at that point should have been the exact way they were
>in the world Cup. THEN from there start pluggin in the
>formulas for friendlies etc. The teams that did not
>qualify for WC would be ranking all tied at one spot
>below the last world cup ranking. Yes, I know Holland
>could wipe the Saudi's butts all over the pitch, but
>in this manner it would be fair and perhaps meaningful
>when the rankings do come out in the post WC months.
>If Holland wants to be higher than SA, then challenge
>them to a friendly . . .
>
>A coach's poll would be interesting too in addition to
>this, but when I used to bet on pointy ball I never
>put much stock in those things either.
>
>Kirsten
>--- Peter Welpton <peter@lexandterry.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I definitely don't think the FIFA rankings are
> > generally realistic at
> > > all, but they got lucky in this case and put us
> > exactly where we
> > > belong. It is as ridiculous for France to be
> > ranked #2 right now as it
> > > was ridiculous for them to be ranked #2 behind
> > Brazil in the rankings
> > > immediately after they won WC98 by beating Brazil
> > by 3 goals. Mexico
> > > being ahead of us is silly, but England shouldn't
> > be behind us.
> >
> >
> > Ok, well, I see. So, to you it is correct that the
> > US is 8th, but it is not
> > correct that in the same ranking system that France
> > is #2, or that Mexico is
> > ahead of the US and England is behind...
> >
> > Hmm.. So you seem to have a lot of differing
> > opinions on other teams in the
> > rankings, but NOT your home country's surprising
> > rise to #8.... Fifa just
> > happen to get THAT one right in your opinion?
> >
> > :) how convenient ( in my best 'churchlady')
> >
> > peet
> >
> >
> > ---
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> > (http://www.americakicks.com)
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>
>=====
>"We are loud. We are proud. We are from Chicago." - myself on Wild Chicago
>re Section 8.
>
>"Playing with fire is bad for those who end up burning themselves. For
>everyone else, it's a great pleasure."
> --- Leon Daudet
>
>__________________________________________________
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>
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Thu Sep 19 11:13:31 2002
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Subject: RE: [nas] And the MetroStars new playoff home is....
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On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, Jason Benfield wrote:
> Are you kidding me? Attendance last week and the week before was really
> impressive for the League, but to have this happen is certainly a blow to
> the league.
Assuming, of course, they actually make the playoffs, which I doubt.
Mike Babyak
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Thu Sep 19 11:34:25 2002
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 11:34:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kirsten Tautfest <hori_too@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [nas] And the MetroStars new playoff home is....
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I hope they learn to appreciate the intimate
atmosphere that a small stadium can bring -- and a
potential for prematch sellouts! :)
But first, they have to get there. :p
--- AbraRob@aol.com wrote:
> METROSTARS TO HOST ALL 2002 MLS PLAYOFF
> GAMES AT RIVERFRONT STADIUM IN NEWARK
>
=====
"We are loud. We are proud. We are from Chicago." - myself on Wild Chicago re Section 8.
"Playing with fire is bad for those who end up burning themselves. For everyone else, it's a great pleasure."
--- Leon Daudet
__________________________________________________
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From: "Chris Allen" <csallen@charter.net>
To: nas@americakicks.com
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:36:30 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: RE: [nas] And the MetroStars new playoff home is....
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On 19 Sep 2002 at 11:56, Jason Benfield wrote:
> Are you kidding me? Attendance last week and the week before was really
> impressive for the League, but to have this happen is certainly a blow to
> the league. The metros need to get the hell out of giants stadium.
Maybe the "best" solution to this problem is for the Metros to not make
the playoffs this year. :-)
Go Revs!
Chris Allen
csallen@charter.net
http://webpages.charter.net/csallen/soccer.htm
-
"Comrades, we always said it was a 5 year plan"
--NE Rev Fanzine "Pictures of Chairman Mao (1996-2001)
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Thu Sep 19 12:09:13 2002
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From: "mrmoore01@prodigy.net" <mrmoore01@prodigy.net>
To: grattonp@unlv.edu, nas@americakicks.com
Subject: Re: [nas] Mathis Gone Mental? (or has Zambrano?)
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 15:09:21 -0400
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But whom? =20
I do not think it would happen, but a perfect guy to=20
lead that rather volatile group, would be Yeadley
at Indiana=2E =20
I just know, short of a few mil, he likley would never
leave the comfy confines of IU=2E
Bring Back Bruce Arena?????
Jeff
Original Message:
-----------------
From: PETER V GRATTON grattonp@unlv=2Eedu
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 07:59:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: nas@americakicks=2Ecom
Subject: Re: [nas] Mathis Gone Mental? (or has Zambrano?)
However as several people have pointed out the TEAM is cracked apart and
a NEW Coach is the Only solution short of wholesale trades=2E=20
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Thu Sep 19 12:11:26 2002
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From: "mrmoore01@prodigy.net" <mrmoore01@prodigy.net>
To: nialls@rcn.com, peter@lexandterry.com, nas@americakicks.com
Subject: Re: [nas] US Men rise to eighth inthe world in latest FIFArankings
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 15:11:34 -0400
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These things are just this: coffee table fodder
for banter like what we are engaged in=2E
If that is what we use them for- then fine=2E
If we take them very seriously, we can be committed ;-)
Jeff
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Niall Swan nialls@rcn=2Ecom
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 11:08:52 -0400
To: peter@lexandterry=2Ecom, nas@americakicks=2Ecom
Subject: Re: [nas] US Men rise to eighth inthe world in latest FIFAranking=
s
Hmm - Holland and Spain are quite high given their history of=20
underachievement Holland did not even qualify for the world cup=2E Austral=
ia=20
is ranked 17 ahead of the US=2E Ok a major boob there=2E It's seems in ter=
ms of=20
which one is better, that it's six of one, and half a dozen of the other!
Niall
The Soccer Resort
www=2Esoccerresort=2Ecom
Adult Soccer Vacations in the Sun
At 10:05 AM 9/18/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >
http://sports=2Eyahoo=2Ecom/m/world/news/reuters/20020918/reu-rankingsdc=2E=
html
>
>
>OK, we had a major debate about the reality of this thing not too long ag=
o=2E
>
>Can anyone really defend this? Come on, EIGHTH? Over England and Italy?=
>
>Now, if you remember, I am a supporter of the Elo Ranking system that
>currently has the US at 19th=2E http://www=2Eeloratings=2Enet
>
>While not perfect, a much more accurate picture of International Football=
=2E
>
>let the overly exhaustive and debated thread BEGIN!!
>
>peet
>
>
>---
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>To subscribe or unsubscribe: http://nas=2Eamericakicks=2Ecom
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Thu Sep 19 12:13:29 2002
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From: "mrmoore01@prodigy.net" <mrmoore01@prodigy.net>
To: kdaleb@wsu.edu, nas@americakicks.com
Subject: Re: [nas] US Men rise to eighth inthe world in latest FIFA rankings
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 15:13:30 -0400
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Let's not get ahead of ourselves=2E=2E=2E=2E
anyone think Wales is some kind of rollover?
I think Wales could give us all we want and would
not really surprise me if they got a result against
us- yet- they did not qualify and are currenty=2E=2E=2E=2E
73rd=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E We are 8th=2E=2E=2E=2E=2EWales 73rd=2E=2E=2E=2E=
=2E
give me a break=2E
Jeff
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Keith Bundy kdaleb@wsu=2Eedu
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 11:15:59 -0400
To: nas@americakicks=2Ecom
Subject: Re: [nas] US Men rise to eighth inthe world in latest FIFA rankin=
gs
I cannot argue the point that there are more than seven teams in the world=
better than the US, however, I'm not sure that there are 18 teams that are=
=2E
The only reason I concern myself with world rankings is a possible seed in=
Germany=2E=2E=2E that would be wild, and it is possible (I won't do all th=
at stats
again, though)=2E That's why I value the FIFA rankings over Elo=2E
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Welpton" <peter@lexandterry=2Ecom>
> >
http://sports=2Eyahoo=2Ecom/m/world/news/reuters/20020918/reu-rankingsdc=2E=
html
>
> OK, we had a major debate about the reality of this thing not too long
ago=2E
>
> Can anyone really defend this? Come on, EIGHTH? Over England and Italy=
?
>
> Now, if you remember, I am a supporter of the Elo Ranking system that
> currently has the US at 19th=2E http://www=2Eeloratings=2Enet
>
> While not perfect, a much more accurate picture of International Footbal=
l=2E
>
> let the overly exhaustive and debated thread BEGIN!!
>
> peet
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Thu Sep 19 12:51:27 2002
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 15:48:17 -0400
To: mrmoore01@prodigy.net,kdaleb@wsu.edu,nas@americakicks.com
From: Niall Swan <nialls@rcn.com>
Subject: Re: [nas] US Men rise to eighth inthe world in latest FIFA
rankings
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Wales have been really poor for the past 7 years. Not like when they had
Ian Rush and Mark Hughes up front, and they were beating Germany away (back
in the late 80's early 90's)!
up until very very recently, when allegedly Mark Hughes as manager has made
a difference, Wales would have been a pushover for the USA - hence the
rating of 73rd....
Controversially yours
Niall
PS My sister was born in Wales, so I can say these things without fear of
being clobbered by large words beginning with "LL".
The Soccer Resort
www.soccerresort.com
Soccer Vacations in the Sun
At 03:13 PM 9/19/02 -0400, mrmoore01@prodigy.net wrote:
>Let's not get ahead of ourselves....
>anyone think Wales is some kind of rollover?
>I think Wales could give us all we want and would
>not really surprise me if they got a result against
>us- yet- they did not qualify and are currenty....
>73rd....... We are 8th.....Wales 73rd.....
> give me a break.
>Jeff
>
>Original Message:
>-----------------
>From: Keith Bundy kdaleb@wsu.edu
>Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 11:15:59 -0400
>To: nas@americakicks.com
>Subject: Re: [nas] US Men rise to eighth inthe world in latest FIFA rankings
>
>
>I cannot argue the point that there are more than seven teams in the world
>better than the US, however, I'm not sure that there are 18 teams that are.
>
>The only reason I concern myself with world rankings is a possible seed in
>Germany... that would be wild, and it is possible (I won't do all that stats
>again, though). That's why I value the FIFA rankings over Elo.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Peter Welpton" <peter@lexandterry.com>
>
> > >
>http://sports.yahoo.com/m/world/news/reuters/20020918/reu-rankingsdc.html
> >
> > OK, we had a major debate about the reality of this thing not too long
>ago.
> >
> > Can anyone really defend this? Come on, EIGHTH? Over England and Italy?
> >
> > Now, if you remember, I am a supporter of the Elo Ranking system that
> > currently has the US at 19th. http://www.eloratings.net
> >
> > While not perfect, a much more accurate picture of International Football.
> >
> > let the overly exhaustive and debated thread BEGIN!!
> >
> > peet
>
>
>---
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Thu Sep 19 13:02:43 2002
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 13:03:44 -0700
Subject: [nas] FW: Blackburn/Friedel UEFA Cup webcast replay(R)
From: <big_dog@fastmail.fm>
To: NAS <NAS@americakicks.com>
Message-ID: <B9AF7BB0.B50%big_dog@fastmail.fm>
In-Reply-To: <20020919190825.6AB49120AC4@embsjmx1.embraer.com.br>
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You can catch the second half if you hurry.
Thx To Warren G for the info.
----------
From: george.abao@pbi.embraer.com
Blackburn Rovers' UEFA Cup tie versus CSKA Sofia is being
broadcast live on the Internet.
http://www.socceraudio.com/UK.htm
It'll be the Blackburn link.
The match started at 3pm ET. Friedel is starting in goal for Rovers.
--MS_Mac_OE_3115285424_526867_MIME_Part
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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>FW: Blackburn/Friedel UEFA Cup webcast replay(R) </TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
You can catch the second half if you hurry.<BR>
Thx To Warren G for the info.<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>----------<BR>
<B>From: </B>george.abao@pbi.embraer.com<BR>
<B><BR>
</B><TT> Blackburn Rovers' UEFA Cup tie versus CSKA Sofia is being<BR>
broadcast live on the Internet.<BR>
<BR>
http://www.socceraudio.com/UK.htm<BR>
<BR>
It'll be the Blackburn link.<BR>
<BR>
The match started at 3pm ET. Friedel is starting in goal for Rovers.<=
BR>
<BR>
</TT></BLOCKQUOTE><TT><BR>
</TT>
</BODY>
</HTML>
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Thu Sep 19 13:46:33 2002
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 13:46:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sokrfanz <sokrfanz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [nas] FW: Blackburn/Friedel UEFA Cup webcast replay(R)
To: big_dog@fastmail.fm, NAS <NAS@americakicks.com>
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Nice idea but I don't have an extra 35 Pounds for the pleasure - just made my deposit on seats @ National Training Center :-)
art
big_dog@fastmail.fm wrote:You can catch the second half if you hurry.
Thx To Warren G for the info.
----------
From: george.abao@pbi.embraer.com
Blackburn Rovers' UEFA Cup tie versus CSKA Sofia is being
broadcast live on the Internet.
http://www.socceraudio.com/UK.htm
It'll be the Blackburn link.
The match started at 3pm ET. Friedel is starting in goal for Rovers.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
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<P>Nice idea but I don't have an extra 35 Pounds for the pleasure - just made my deposit on seats @ National Training Center :-)
<P>art
<P> <B><I>big_dog@fastmail.fm</I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">You can catch the second half if you hurry.<BR>Thx To Warren G for the info.<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>----------<BR><B>From: </B>george.abao@pbi.embraer.com<BR><B><BR></B><TT>Blackburn Rovers' UEFA Cup tie versus CSKA Sofia is being<BR>broadcast live on the Internet.<BR><BR>http://www.socceraudio.com/UK.htm<BR><BR>It'll be the Blackburn link.<BR><BR>The match started at 3pm ET. Friedel is starting in goal for Rovers.<BR><BR></TT></BLOCKQUOTE><TT><BR></TT></BLOCKQUOTE><p><br><hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
New <a href="http://rd.yahoo.com/evt=1207/*http://sbc.yahoo.com/";>DSL Internet Access</a> from SBC & Yahoo!</a>
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Thu Sep 19 13:54:16 2002
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To: nialls@rcn.com, mrmoore01@prodigy.net, kdaleb@wsu.edu,
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Subject: Re: [nas] US Men rise to eighth inthe world in latest FIFArankings
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Wales is unbeaten run for a decent stretch recently=2E They have played th=
e
likes of Argentina, Germany,
etc etc=2E They have some real 1st team talent=2E
I do question their depth=2E
I am just stating right NOW=2E=2E=2E=2EWales would be a real handful=2E
Right NOW=2E=2E=2EWales is not 73rd by a long shot in my view
Jeff
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Niall Swan nialls@rcn=2Ecom
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 15:48:17 -0400
To: mrmoore01@prodigy=2Enet, kdaleb@wsu=2Eedu, nas@americakicks=2Ecom
Subject: Re: [nas] US Men rise to eighth inthe world in latest FIFAranking=
s
Wales have been really poor for the past 7 years=2E Not like when they had=
=20
Ian Rush and Mark Hughes up front, and they were beating Germany away (bac=
k=20
in the late 80's early 90's)!
up until very very recently, when allegedly Mark Hughes as manager has mad=
e=20
a difference, Wales would have been a pushover for the USA - hence the=20
rating of 73rd=2E=2E=2E=2E
Controversially yours
Niall
PS My sister was born in Wales, so I can say these things without fear of=20=
being clobbered by large words beginning with "LL"=2E
The Soccer Resort
www=2Esoccerresort=2Ecom
Soccer Vacations in the Sun
At 03:13 PM 9/19/02 -0400, mrmoore01@prodigy=2Enet wrote:
>Let's not get ahead of ourselves=2E=2E=2E=2E
>anyone think Wales is some kind of rollover?
>I think Wales could give us all we want and would
>not really surprise me if they got a result against
>us- yet- they did not qualify and are currenty=2E=2E=2E=2E
>73rd=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E We are 8th=2E=2E=2E=2E=2EWales 73rd=2E=2E=2E=2E=
=2E
> give me a break=2E
>Jeff
>
>Original Message:
>-----------------
>From: Keith Bundy kdaleb@wsu=2Eedu
>Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 11:15:59 -0400
>To: nas@americakicks=2Ecom
>Subject: Re: [nas] US Men rise to eighth inthe world in latest FIFA
rankings
>
>
>I cannot argue the point that there are more than seven teams in the worl=
d
>better than the US, however, I'm not sure that there are 18 teams that ar=
e=2E
>
>The only reason I concern myself with world rankings is a possible seed i=
n
>Germany=2E=2E=2E that would be wild, and it is possible (I won't do all t=
hat
stats
>again, though)=2E That's why I value the FIFA rankings over Elo=2E
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Peter Welpton" <peter@lexandterry=2Ecom>
>
> > >
>http://sports=2Eyahoo=2Ecom/m/world/news/reuters/20020918/reu-rankingsdc=2E=
html
> >
> > OK, we had a major debate about the reality of this thing not too long=
>ago=2E
> >
> > Can anyone really defend this? Come on, EIGHTH? Over England and
Italy?
> >
> > Now, if you remember, I am a supporter of the Elo Ranking system that
> > currently has the US at 19th=2E http://www=2Eeloratings=2Enet
> >
> > While not perfect, a much more accurate picture of International
Football=2E
> >
> > let the overly exhaustive and debated thread BEGIN!!
> >
> > peet
>
>
>---
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Thu Sep 19 14:05:27 2002
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 17:02:19 -0400
To: mrmoore01@prodigy.net,nas@americakicks.com
From: Niall Swan <nialls@rcn.com>
Subject: Re: [nas] US Men rise to eighth inthe world in latest
FIFArankings
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Jeff,
But ....I don't think that the ratings do reflect "now" only, nor should
they. They reflect "now" and "recent past", so that one is not duped into
thinking a team is good purely by a good winning stretch, nor poor by a
losing stretch (maybe by missing some key players), but by their overall
"rounded" performance over an extended (but reasonable) period of time....
For wales to renounce 73rd spot and move way down the rankings, they need
to show consistency over at least a year/two. I think their current rating
is fair based on performances *overall* during the past few years.
Feels like an existential conversation on the meaning of "now" is about to
begin...;-)
Niall
The Soccer Resort
www.soccerresort.com
Soccer vacations in the Sun
At 04:54 PM 9/19/02 -0400, mrmoore01@prodigy.net wrote:
>Wales is unbeaten run for a decent stretch recently. They have played the
>likes of Argentina, Germany,
>etc etc. They have some real 1st team talent.
>I do question their depth.
> I am just stating right NOW....Wales would be a real handful.
>Right NOW...Wales is not 73rd by a long shot in my view
>Jeff
>
>Original Message:
>-----------------
>From: Niall Swan nialls@rcn.com
>Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 15:48:17 -0400
>To: mrmoore01@prodigy.net, kdaleb@wsu.edu, nas@americakicks.com
>Subject: Re: [nas] US Men rise to eighth inthe world in latest FIFArankings
>
>
>Wales have been really poor for the past 7 years. Not like when they had
>Ian Rush and Mark Hughes up front, and they were beating Germany away (back
>in the late 80's early 90's)!
>
>up until very very recently, when allegedly Mark Hughes as manager has made
>a difference, Wales would have been a pushover for the USA - hence the
>rating of 73rd....
>
>Controversially yours
>Niall
>
>PS My sister was born in Wales, so I can say these things without fear of
>being clobbered by large words beginning with "LL".
>
>The Soccer Resort
>www.soccerresort.com
>Soccer Vacations in the Sun
>
>
>At 03:13 PM 9/19/02 -0400, mrmoore01@prodigy.net wrote:
> >Let's not get ahead of ourselves....
> >anyone think Wales is some kind of rollover?
> >I think Wales could give us all we want and would
> >not really surprise me if they got a result against
> >us- yet- they did not qualify and are currenty....
> >73rd....... We are 8th.....Wales 73rd.....
> > give me a break.
> >Jeff
> >
> >Original Message:
> >-----------------
> >From: Keith Bundy kdaleb@wsu.edu
> >Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 11:15:59 -0400
> >To: nas@americakicks.com
> >Subject: Re: [nas] US Men rise to eighth inthe world in latest FIFA
>rankings
> >
> >
> >I cannot argue the point that there are more than seven teams in the world
> >better than the US, however, I'm not sure that there are 18 teams that are.
> >
> >The only reason I concern myself with world rankings is a possible seed in
> >Germany... that would be wild, and it is possible (I won't do all that
>stats
> >again, though). That's why I value the FIFA rankings over Elo.
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Peter Welpton" <peter@lexandterry.com>
> >
> > > >
> >http://sports.yahoo.com/m/world/news/reuters/20020918/reu-rankingsdc.html
> > >
> > > OK, we had a major debate about the reality of this thing not too long
> >ago.
> > >
> > > Can anyone really defend this? Come on, EIGHTH? Over England and
>Italy?
> > >
> > > Now, if you remember, I am a supporter of the Elo Ranking system that
> > > currently has the US at 19th. http://www.eloratings.net
> > >
> > > While not perfect, a much more accurate picture of International
>Football.
> > >
> > > let the overly exhaustive and debated thread BEGIN!!
> > >
> > > peet
> >
> >
> >---
> >NAS is hosted by America Kicks (http://www.americakicks.com)
> >To subscribe or unsubscribe: http://nas.americakicks.com
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> >
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Thu Sep 19 15:49:38 2002
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 17:48:24 -0500 (CDT)
From: "James V. Geluso" <atlemar@io.com>
To: nas@americakicks.com
Subject: Re: [nas] US Men rise to eighth inthe world in latest FIFA rankings
In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20020919154447.00ca4530@pop.rcn.com>
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Today is not a good day for accuracy on NAS. :)
For the record, Germany finished second, not fourth, in the World Cup. And
the U.S. beat Portugal, not Spain.
This has been a message from your friendly neighborhood pedantic busybody.
--
james geluso:atlemar@io.com:in my mind i'm everyone
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Thu Sep 19 18:20:46 2002
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 21:20:42 EDT
Subject: Re: [nas] US Men rise to eighth inthe world in latest FIFA rankings
To: nas@americakicks.com
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In a message dated 9/19/2002 3:50:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, atlemar@io.com
writes:
> For the record, Germany finished second, not fourth, in the World Cup. And
> the U.S. beat Portugal, not Spain.
>
If you are refering to my email on the subject, I was refering to Germany's
4th place FIFA rank, not their finish in the WC. I should have been more
specific.
Not sure who mentioned the US beating Spain.
And I'm still baffled as to their position in second place in the FIFA
rankings. Sounds like a case for the X-files.
Darrin
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 9/19/2002 3:50:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, atlemar@io.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">For the record, Germany finished second, not fourth, in the World Cup. And <BR>
the U.S. beat Portugal, not Spain.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
If you are refering to my email on the subject, I was refering to Germany's 4th place FIFA rank, not their finish in the WC. I should have been more specific.<BR>
<BR>
Not sure who mentioned the US beating Spain.<BR>
<BR>
And I'm still baffled as to their position in second place in the FIFA rankings. Sounds like a case for the X-files.<BR>
<BR>
Darrin</FONT></HTML>
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Thu Sep 19 18:44:54 2002
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From: "G. Warren Abao" <wabao@adelphia.net>
To: "North_American_Soccer_list" <nas@americakicks.com>
Subject: [nas] DC vs. Dallas [no R]
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 21:43:55 -0400
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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!
Do they sell defibrillators on eBay?
*whew*
Bring on Elimination Weekend!!
Warren Abao - Palm Beach Gardens, Fla.
AIM GWarrenAbao - YIM gwar720127 - ICQ 29374771
"People who say the U.S. will never win the World Cup don't know what they're
talking about. It will happen one day, and I will laugh at Europe when it
does." --DaMarcus Beasley
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Thu Sep 19 18:48:23 2002
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 20:47:02 -0500
To: "G. Warren Abao" <wabao@adelphia.net>,
"North_American_Soccer_list" <nas@americakicks.com>
From: Bill Quigley <billq@rcnchicago.com>
Subject: Re: [nas] DC vs. Dallas [no R]
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At 09:43 PM 9/19/2002 -0400, G. Warren Abao wrote:
>AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!
>
>Do they sell defibrillators on eBay?
>
>*whew*
>
>Bring on Elimination Weekend!!
That was a very enjoyable match, even though the evil bastards of Texas
won. GO FIRE! :)
Bill Q.
Bill Quigley
Web Master, The Fire Alarm
www.thefirealarm.com
Chicago Correspondent - Cyber Soccer News
www.cybersoccernews.com
"When I walk down the street, I want people to say, `There goes the
greatest hitter who ever lived.' " - Ted Williams 1918-2002
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Thu Sep 19 19:45:09 2002
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From: "Charlynn Helms" <charlie.helms@prodigy.net>
To: "ABC NAS" <nas@americakicks.com>, "ABC BURN" <burn-fans@topica.com>
Subject: [nas] Burn vs DC United [R]
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 21:45:14 -0500
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DALLAS BURN GAME SUMMARY
EDDIE JOHNSON OVERTIME GOAL SENDS BURN TO VICTORY
Burn Keeps Home Field Advantage Hopes Alive With Victory
WASHINGTON, DC - The Dallas Burn kept alive their hopes of home field
advantage in the first round of the playoffs with a 4-3 overtime =
decision at
DC United tonight. In order to get home field advantage, the Burn must =
now
hope for a Colorado loss or tie in their match vs. Kansas City on Friday
night. Should the Burn gain home field advantage, Game 1 would be on
Wednesday, September 25 at 7:30 p.m. at the Cotton Bowl. In the event =
they
do not gain home field advantage, Game 1 would be Wednesday at Colorado =
with
Game 2 on Saturday, September 28 at 7:30 p.m. at the Cotton Bowl.
Dallas struck for the game-winning goal in the 96th minute on a great =
hustle
play by Joselito Vaca. A 50-50 ball to the left of the goal between =
Vaca
and United 'keeper Nick Rimando was won by Vaca. With Rimando out of =
the
net, Vaca sent a looping cross into the box, which was chested down by =
Eddie
Johnson. Johnson settled the ball and hit a left-footer just inside the
right post for the victory.
The Burn had two quality chances in the first 30 minutes of the match on
great balls from Antonio Martinez. In the 25th minute, Martinez beat =
three
United players on the dribble before threading a cross to a rushing =
Bobby
Rhine at the top of the box. Rhine's first touch failed him, however, =
and
Rimando rushed out to smother the ball. In the 33rd minute, Martinez
nutmegged a United defender and sent the ball to Kreis at the left side =
of
the box. Kreis' left-footer was deflected just wide of the goal for a
corner kick. On the ensuing corner, Chad Deering's cross was knocked =
out by
the hand of United defender Bryan Namoff, resulting in a penalty kick.
Jorge Rodriguez placed the ensuing penalty kick to the right corner of =
the
goal, just out of the reach of Rimando.
Burn 'keeper Matt Jordan came up with two huge saves in the first half =
to
keep United off of the board. In the 29th minute, Henry Zambrano hit a
wicked volley from the left side of the box that Jordan dove to snare.
Then, in the closing moments of the first half, Jordan came up big =
again. A
Zambrano shot on goal was inadvertently deflected out by Eddie Pope, =
with
the rebound falling to Jose Alegria 10 yards from goal. Alegria =
one-timed a
right-footer that Jordan was able to knock down with his arm. With the =
ball
sitting just a foot from the goal line, Oscar Pareja cleared it out of
danger.
United pulled even just three minutes into the second half on a great =
finish
by Bobby Convey. Convey played a give-and-go with Eliseo Quintanilla,
freeing Convey on the left side of the box. With Jordan coming out to =
cut
the angle, Convey ripped a left-footer just inside the left post. =
United
took the lead in the 65th minute, with Zambrano finding the back of the =
net.
Ben Olsen sent a cross into the box just ahead of Burn defender Tenywa
Bonseu and into the path of a breaking Zambrano. With Jordan charging =
off
of his line, Zambrano beat Jordan to the ball and flicked it over him.
The Burn evened it up in the 74th minute with a great shot by Martinez.
Chad Deering found Martinez at the left corner of the box with Martinez
seemingly poised to cross the ball. With Rimando cheating off of his =
line
in anticipation of the cross, Martinez sent a deft chip that found the =
right
side netting.
The Burn took the lead once again with a goal in the 80th minute. as =
Vaca
found Rhine breaking down the right flank. Rhine outran Pope to the =
ball
and hit a right-footer just inside the left post.
United evened the game once again in the dying moments of the match,
striking in injury time. Marco Etcheverry played a through ball to Ali
Curtis in the left side of the box. Curtis' shot found the lower left
corner of the goal, sending the game into overtime.
Linescore
1 2 OT F
Dallas 1 2 2 4=20
DC United 0 3 0 3=20
Scoring Summary:
DAL - Rodriguez (PK) 34', Martinez (Deering, Johnson) 74', Rhine (Vaca) =
80',
Johnson (Vaca) 96'
DC - Convey (Quintanilla) 48', Zambrano (Olsen, Quintinalla) 65', Curtis
(Etcheverry, Villegas) 92+
LINEUPS
DALLAS BURN - Matt Jordan, Jorge Rodriguez, Tenywa Bonseu, Steve Morrow,
Matt Behncke, Ronnie O'Brien, Chad Deering, Antonio Martinez, Oscar =
Pareja
(Joselito Vaca 69'), Bobby Rhine (Lee Morrison 87'), Jason Kreis (Eddie
Johnson 67')=20
DC UNITED - Nick Rimando, Milton Reyes, Eddie Pope, Bryan Namoff, Ben =
Olsen,
Jose Alegria (Richie Williams 68'), Marco Etcheverry, Bobby Convey, =
Petter
Villegas, Henry Zambrano (Jaime Moreno 67'), Eliseo Quintanilla (Ali =
Curtis
77')
STATS DAL DC
Shots 15 21
Shots on Goal 9 9
Saves 6 4
Fouls 18 17
Offside 3 2
Corner Kicks 6 13
Cautions:=20
DAL - Rodriguez 38', Morrow 41', Behncke 91'
DC - Namoff 20'
Ejections:
None=20
Referee: Ricardo Salazar Referee's Assistants: George Vergara, Steve
Taylor
Attendance: 13,889
www.dallasburn.com
------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C26025.D6669A20
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2716.2200" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>DALLAS BURN GAME SUMMARY<BR><BR>EDDIE JOHNSON OVERTIME GOAL SENDS =
BURN TO=20
VICTORY<BR>Burn Keeps Home Field Advantage Hopes Alive With=20
Victory<BR><BR>WASHINGTON, DC - The Dallas Burn kept alive their hopes =
of home=20
field<BR>advantage in the first round of the playoffs with a 4-3 =
overtime=20
decision at<BR>DC United tonight. In order to get home field =
advantage,=20
the Burn must now<BR>hope for a Colorado loss or tie in their match vs. =
Kansas=20
City on Friday<BR>night. Should the Burn gain home field =
advantage, Game 1=20
would be on<BR>Wednesday, September 25 at 7:30 p.m. at the Cotton =
Bowl. In=20
the event they<BR>do not gain home field advantage, Game 1 would be =
Wednesday at=20
Colorado with<BR>Game 2 on Saturday, September 28 at 7:30 p.m. at the =
Cotton=20
Bowl.<BR>Dallas struck for the game-winning goal in the 96th minute on a =
great=20
hustle<BR>play by Joselito Vaca. A 50-50 ball to the left of the =
goal=20
between Vaca<BR>and United 'keeper Nick Rimando was won by Vaca. =
With=20
Rimando out of the<BR>net, Vaca sent a looping cross into the box, which =
was=20
chested down by Eddie<BR>Johnson. Johnson settled the ball and hit =
a=20
left-footer just inside the<BR>right post for the victory.<BR>The Burn =
had two=20
quality chances in the first 30 minutes of the match on<BR>great balls =
from=20
Antonio Martinez. In the 25th minute, Martinez beat =
three<BR>United=20
players on the dribble before threading a cross to a rushing =
Bobby<BR>Rhine at=20
the top of the box. Rhine's first touch failed him, however,=20
and<BR>Rimando rushed out to smother the ball. In the 33rd minute, =
Martinez<BR>nutmegged a United defender and sent the ball to Kreis at =
the left=20
side of<BR>the box. Kreis' left-footer was deflected just wide of =
the goal=20
for a<BR>corner kick. On the ensuing corner, Chad Deering's cross =
was=20
knocked out by<BR>the hand of United defender Bryan Namoff, resulting in =
a=20
penalty kick.<BR>Jorge Rodriguez placed the ensuing penalty kick to the =
right=20
corner of the<BR>goal, just out of the reach of Rimando.<BR>Burn 'keeper =
Matt=20
Jordan came up with two huge saves in the first half to<BR>keep United =
off of=20
the board. In the 29th minute, Henry Zambrano hit a<BR>wicked =
volley from=20
the left side of the box that Jordan dove to snare.<BR>Then, in the =
closing=20
moments of the first half, Jordan came up big again. A<BR>Zambrano =
shot on=20
goal was inadvertently deflected out by Eddie Pope, with<BR>the rebound =
falling=20
to Jose Alegria 10 yards from goal. Alegria one-timed =
a<BR>right-footer=20
that Jordan was able to knock down with his arm. With the =
ball<BR>sitting=20
just a foot from the goal line, Oscar Pareja cleared it out=20
of<BR>danger.<BR>United pulled even just three minutes into the second =
half on a=20
great finish<BR>by Bobby Convey. Convey played a give-and-go with =
Eliseo=20
Quintanilla,<BR>freeing Convey on the left side of the box. With =
Jordan=20
coming out to cut<BR>the angle, Convey ripped a left-footer just inside =
the left=20
post. United<BR>took the lead in the 65th minute, with Zambrano =
finding=20
the back of the net.<BR>Ben Olsen sent a cross into the box just ahead =
of Burn=20
defender Tenywa<BR>Bonseu and into the path of a breaking =
Zambrano. With=20
Jordan charging off<BR>of his line, Zambrano beat Jordan to the ball and =
flicked=20
it over him.<BR>The Burn evened it up in the 74th minute with a great =
shot by=20
Martinez.<BR>Chad Deering found Martinez at the left corner of the box =
with=20
Martinez<BR>seemingly poised to cross the ball. With Rimando =
cheating off=20
of his line<BR>in anticipation of the cross, Martinez sent a deft chip =
that=20
found the right<BR>side netting.<BR>The Burn took the lead once again =
with a=20
goal in the 80th minute. as Vaca<BR>found Rhine breaking down the =
right=20
flank. Rhine outran Pope to the ball<BR>and hit a right-footer =
just inside=20
the left post.<BR>United evened the game once again in the dying moments =
of the=20
match,<BR>striking in injury time. Marco Etcheverry played a =
through ball=20
to Ali<BR>Curtis in the left side of the box. Curtis' shot found =
the lower=20
left<BR>corner of the goal, sending the game into=20
overtime.<BR><BR>Linescore<BR>1 2 OT F<BR>Dallas 1 2 2 4 <BR>DC United 0 =
3 0 3=20
<BR><BR>Scoring Summary:<BR>DAL - Rodriguez (PK) 34', Martinez (Deering, =
Johnson) 74', Rhine (Vaca) 80',<BR>Johnson (Vaca) 96'<BR>DC - Convey=20
(Quintanilla) 48', Zambrano (Olsen, Quintinalla) 65', =
Curtis<BR>(Etcheverry,=20
Villegas) 92+<BR><BR>LINEUPS<BR>DALLAS BURN - Matt Jordan, Jorge =
Rodriguez,=20
Tenywa Bonseu, Steve Morrow,<BR>Matt Behncke, Ronnie O'Brien, Chad =
Deering,=20
Antonio Martinez, Oscar Pareja<BR>(Joselito Vaca 69'), Bobby Rhine (Lee =
Morrison=20
87'), Jason Kreis (Eddie<BR>Johnson 67') <BR>DC UNITED - Nick Rimando, =
Milton=20
Reyes, Eddie Pope, Bryan Namoff, Ben Olsen,<BR>Jose Alegria (Richie =
Williams=20
68'), Marco Etcheverry, Bobby Convey, Petter<BR>Villegas, Henry Zambrano =
(Jaime=20
Moreno 67'), Eliseo Quintanilla (Ali Curtis<BR>77')<BR><BR><BR>STATS DAL =
DC<BR>Shots 15 21<BR>Shots on Goal 9 9<BR>Saves 6 4<BR>Fouls 18 =
17<BR>Offside 3=20
2<BR>Corner Kicks 6 13<BR><BR>Cautions: <BR>DAL - Rodriguez 38', Morrow =
41',=20
Behncke 91'<BR>DC - Namoff 20'<BR><BR>Ejections:<BR>None =
<BR><BR>Referee:=20
Ricardo Salazar Referee's Assistants: George Vergara,=20
Steve<BR>Taylor<BR><BR>Attendance: 13,889<BR><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.dallasburn.com";>www.dallasburn.com</A></DIV></BODY></H=
TML>
------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C26025.D6669A20--
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Thu Sep 19 19:49:10 2002
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Message-ID: <004801c26050$02a4cc40$dcedf5d1@g4y6j4>
From: "Kevin Lindstrom" <klindstr@flash.net>
To: "G. Warren Abao" <wabao@adelphia.net>,
"North_American_Soccer_list" <nas@americakicks.com>
References: <LPBBLOLCMFOHIBLJHBDNGEEDEHAA.wabao@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: [nas] DC vs. Dallas [RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR]
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 21:47:06 -0500
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----- Original Message -----
From: G. Warren Abao <wabao@adelphia.net>
> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!
>
> Do they sell defibrillators on eBay?
>
> *whew*
>
> Bring on Elimination Weekend!!
A bit 'o fun there, yeah? ;-)
Apologies to the United fans, but we had to get back on track somehow.
Well, Mr. Titus, we'll see who is the over-the-hill team starting on
Wednesday. %-)
So Sez Drummer Boy
http://flashpages.prodigy.net/klindstr/home.html
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Thu Sep 19 19:54:06 2002
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Message-ID: <005501c26050$e982aa60$dcedf5d1@g4y6j4>
From: "Kevin Lindstrom" <klindstr@flash.net>
To: "US Soccer List" <nas@americakicks.com>
References: <B9AF1725.B11%big_dog@fastmail.fm><4.2.2.20020919100802.00c37b60@pop.rcn.com> <00b601c25fe9$af25bd60$6501a8c0@d0h9901>
Subject: Re: [nas] Ronnie O'Brein
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 21:53:33 -0500
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----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Welpton <peter@lexandterry.com>
>
> Remember, that in 2003 Dallas will be sporting Ronnie O'Brien and Chris
> Gbandi as fresh new faces...
And we haven't even drafted yet. ;-)
As for Ronnie, I will be interested to see what happens when the guy has a
whole pre-season to get in with the team. He definitely still doesn't look
to be too in synch with the guys, although he has often looked real
dangerous.
I also think it will be very interesting to see if Ryan Suarez can continue
to improve when some of us (including me) were worried about a sophomore
slump.
And for those of you wondering about the progress of Mr. Eddie Johnson, I
think you saw a bit of that future tonight. All he needs is time, and
considering that he is looking more and more like the No. 3 forward instead
of Bobby Rhine, he should get more and more over the next season or two.
(As to who will be the No. 2 forward in Dallas, who knows?)
So Sez Drummer Boy
http://flashpages.prodigy.net/klindstr/home.html
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Thu Sep 19 20:17:17 2002
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Reply-To: "MrMoore" <mrmoore01@prodigy.net>
From: "MrMoore" <mrmoore01@prodigy.net>
To: "NAS" <nas@americakicks.com>
Subject: [nas] MLS- verdict year 2002
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 22:12:12 -0500
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You know.....
this past week has just underscored the fact that this league puts a
darn GOOD product on the field! The intensity is there. The quality is
there....
the entertainment is there...and darn it.....we play an entertaining style
of
ball in MLS. It is an entire shame and blight on the country that most of
America
simply does not get it. Breaks your heart really. This league just has to
stay
solvent as it is producing some good stuff and fine talent.
There was a comment I saw in England, from a CANADIAN, of all
people. He went to the Fire vs. Metros match- the one where it was
either 3-2 or 4-3 and Beasley hit the winner (he HAD to slip in the fact
that he was only there to watch
Rangers vs. River Plate- because NOT to say that he would have been subject
to derisive
sneers I suppose?......). He stated how entertaining it
was but that he did not recognize a single players name. I thought to
myself
at that time, how pathetic and so what! Why broadcast your ignorance on a
worldwide channel like that?
He likely knows all the names of
the SPL sides, or half the Prem sides, but does not know anyone in MLS
and that somehow tainted his enjoyment. What complete piddle. The sad
fact is- he believes if anyone, or any league was any good......HE would
have heard about it.
God what tripe.
I suppose this is the guy that refuses to buy generic pharmaceuticals? Who
knows?
Then I reflected on this general "European" myopic attitude about football.
My stance is- I hope they stay this pathetically ignorant up toward
every
world cup. The rest of the world does not need THEIR APPROVAL to
play the game at a high level. We do not need their recognition or respect
to kick their ass! So....please, by all means ye ignorant, remain as such
until we plunder ye game til the end of the earth!!!!!!!!! Amen.
Jeff
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Thu Sep 19 20:57:12 2002
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From: "Kevin Lindstrom" <klindstr@flash.net>
To: "NAS" <nas@americakicks.com>, "Burn List" <burn-fans@topica.com>
Subject: [nas] Hey Bruce -- p!ss off!
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 22:56:31 -0500
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Deep in this wonderful article about the USA WC effort, you get a few words
from our boy Bruce.
On MLS's decision to allow green-card holders not to count as international
players: "The green-card ruling is not in the best interests of the national
team. Look at Dallas. How many of those guys are Americans? But that's
life."
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/grant_wahl/news/2002/09/19/wahl
_mailbag/
You have a problem with exactly who now? Chris GBandi ought to be
considered for the US national team and Oscar Pareja loves the Burn more
than any player in this league loves their team -- and I challenge anyone to
show otherwise.
First off, let's answer your rhetorical question. Matt Jordan, Jason Kreis,
Paul Broome, Ryan Suarez, Bobby Rhine, Eddie Johnson, Chad Deering -- of the
ones getting regular or semi-regular pt. (I will admit, I am not completely
sure about Antonio Martinez.)
Second, what is the point? Where is the US player who isn't getting pt
because of those players? Granted, there could be a problem if you had
three SIs and eights players with green cards, but you don't have that.
Or what about your favorite player, Marco Etcheverry? You know, the one who
is now out of the playoffs -- again? Doesn't he have a green card?
And let's turn that around -- Marco has his kids here. What if they (or
other soccer-talented-parent-raised-kids) turn out to be as good as their
parents and want to play well for the US? Are you going to turn them down
because their parents weren't "born citizens"?
Last I checked, Bruce, this was supposed to still be the land of
opportunity, and what better way to develop and grow the talent base than
bringing in players willing to come to what used to be and to a certain
extent still is a second-rate but growing and developing league? Do you
think this league would be anywhere without El Pibe, El Diablo, Leonel
Alvarez, Mauricio Cienfuegos, Robert Warzycha, Carlos EFFIN Llamosa!!!!,
Jaime Moreno, Peter Nowak, Diego Gutierrez, etc.?
Or where would Landon have been if all he had to play against and with while
growing up in Cali were anglos?
It is a strength, not a weakness, @$$hole!
Someone might want to point this obvious blind spot to him -- good as he is,
it is this kind of idiocy that will keep the US from truly becoming a world
power. It really is that simple.
But hey. Lo que sea.
So Sez Drummer Boy
http://flashpages.prodigy.net/klindstr/home.html
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Thu Sep 19 21:43:42 2002
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 21:43:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kirsten Tautfest <hori_too@yahoo.com>
Subject: [nas] Richmond v Rochester [R] (1st leg of East semi)
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Score line at the final whistle: 1 - 1
Game summary:
http://www.richmondkickers.com/news/0919002Rochestergamesum.htm
My observations:
Good match overall. There was a questionable call in
the box with a 'back pass' to the Rhino's keeper
(Onstad) in the second half. Questionable in the sense
that it wasn't called and probably wasn't due to the
positioning of the ref and the linesman relative to
the ball. To the officials it appeared as a possible
shot on goal. From my angle, with the "Corner Kicks",
it should have been called.
Fox (Richmond) got red carded early in the second
half. So he will not be available. Demin played a good
portion of the match limping slightly. I think the
only reason that the Rhinos coach did not pull him is
that it may have left a gaping hole in the Rhino's
back line.
It became clear to me that the main reason that Onstad
had a .75 GAA going into tonight's matchup was due to
the defensive style of play of the Rhinos. Counter
then drop back on D. (Kind of reminded me of MLS Cup
2000, but that's another matter . . .)
Richmond appeared flatfooted for most of the match.
They need to pick it up if they want to make it past
Rochester to get to Milwaukee. They will be without
Fox, despite being a Defender, he pushed far up the
right wing on the attack. The red card was for a
'last man' offense. Not too rough but the right call,
nonetheless. Henderson scored the goal for Richmond.
They also used all five of their subs. I belive the
Rhinos only used 2.
The crowd was nice (3327). A little quiet from time
to time compared to what I'm used to (i.e. wall of
noise). The weather was perfect.
Other cute observation:
At halftime I noticed a little kid no older than 3
dart past me. He paused and looked toward the pitch
then took off running down the wheelchair ramp. I
glanced over and thought that I spotted his dad who
was engrossed in conversation with friends. Next thing
I know, the kid had slipped through the field gate
near the base of the ramp and was trotting to where
the Kicker bench was warming up. He proceded to warm
up with them. Jogging back and forth and even trying
to run backwards. The Kicker who was nearest the
pressbox side corner was having fun with the kid. Like
it was all normal. Dad finally notices the kid missing
and someone points out to the field. Dad was probably
relieved and amused at the same time. He went down to
the gate and was allowed on the track to get the kid.
The kid didn't come off until it was time to clear the
field for the second half. The kid didn't want to go.
He was having too much fun and wanted to "tell" all
the Kickers who were nearby goodluck with a
"high-five".
Ah, the unintentional halftime shows are the best. :)
I had a good time.
If any Corner Kickers are on this list, thank you for
letting me hang out with you. Cheers!
Kirsten
=====
"We are loud. We are proud. We are from Chicago." - myself on Wild Chicago re Section 8.
"Playing with fire is bad for those who end up burning themselves. For everyone else, it's a great pleasure."
--- Leon Daudet
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Thu Sep 19 21:47:02 2002
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 23:44:28 -0500
Subject: Re: [nas] US Men rise to eighth inthe world in latest FIFA rankings
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On Thursday, September 19, 2002, at 09:02 AM, Peter Welpton wrote:
>
>
> Ok, well, I see. So, to you it is correct that the US is 8th, but it
> is not
> correct that in the same ranking system that France is #2, or that
> Mexico is
> ahead of the US and England is behind..
>
> Hmm.. So you seem to have a lot of differing opinions on other teams in
> the
> rankings, but NOT your home country's surprising rise to #8.... Fifa
> just
> happen to get THAT one right in your opinion?
>
> :) how convenient ( in my best 'churchlady')
>
> peet
You betcha. FIFA got lucky this one single time, and put us in exactly
the right spot. I'm definitely not defending the ranking system as a
whole, just that we are indeed the 8th best team in the world.
Likewise, after WC98, we were overrated by the FIFA rankings. I just
think it's strange that in this case, the USA placed 8th in BOTH the
World Cup, and in the FIFA rankings--what objective evidence is there to
the contrary?
It obviously all depends on what you want any ranking system to
rank--current quality vs. long-term quality. But it is utterly
incomprehensible to me that if Turkey, for example, had won the World
Cup, that many of y'all could with a straight face say the next day that
they're not the best team in the world. That logic basically says the
World Cup is nothing but 64 glorified friendlies. All this is about as
logical as determining team rankings by who has the largest gross
payroll.
And again, once real games start again, with Euro qualifiers, Copa
Americas, etc., all my blather diminishes in importance. I'm saying
this simply because we are still in the immediate wake of the World Cup
(you know, what used to be called the Football World Championship
because it determined the World Champions).
Anyway, I'm done here. I just can't reason with you people! ;)
Lark
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Thu Sep 19 21:49:18 2002
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 21:49:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kirsten Tautfest <hori_too@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [nas] DC vs. Dallas [R]
To: North_American_Soccer_list <nas@americakicks.com>
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020919204626.03a34c80@pop.rcnchicago.com>
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Yellow Card to Quigley!
Failure to change [no R] to [R].
Which I just did.
4 - 3 OT. Dallas.
--- Bill Quigley <billq@rcnchicago.com> wrote:
> At 09:43 PM 9/19/2002 -0400, G. Warren Abao wrote:
> >AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!
> >
> >Do they sell defibrillators on eBay?
> >
> >*whew*
> >
> >Bring on Elimination Weekend!!
>
> That was a very enjoyable match, even though the
> evil bastards of Texas
> won. GO FIRE! :)
>
> Bill Q.
>
>
> Bill Quigley
> Web Master, The Fire Alarm
> www.thefirealarm.com
>
> Chicago Correspondent - Cyber Soccer News
> www.cybersoccernews.com
>
> "When I walk down the street, I want people to say,
> `There goes the
> greatest hitter who ever lived.' " - Ted Williams
> 1918-2002
>
>
>
>
> ---
> NAS is hosted by America Kicks
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=====
"We are loud. We are proud. We are from Chicago." - myself on Wild Chicago re Section 8.
"Playing with fire is bad for those who end up burning themselves. For everyone else, it's a great pleasure."
--- Leon Daudet
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Thu Sep 19 22:06:31 2002
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From: Casbahman@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 01:06:31 EDT
Subject: Re: [nas] Hey Bruce -- p!ss off!
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In a message dated 9/19/2002 8:58:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
klindstr@flash.net writes:
> And let's turn that around -- Marco has his kids here. What if they (or
> other soccer-talented-parent-raised-kids) turn out to be as good as their
> parents and want to play well for the US? Are you going to turn them down
> because their parents weren't "born citizens"?
Sheesh. What's with the prejudice-jibe you are laying on Bruce? I thought he
made a good point. The more green-carded players taking jobs in MLS, the
less there are for players who could develop into U.S. national teamers. One
of the problems with the NASL is that you had so few americans getting
playing time. Yes, there is no current national teammer not getting playing
time because of a green-carded player, but that isn't his point. He's
worried about players with potential. He doesn't need to be concerned about
the level of MLS play nor how much some Dallas dude loves his team. His
concern, as *national team coach*, is to identify and help develop talented
players for the U.S. player pool. If a USian is riding the pine because a
green-carded player is in the spot, his development will be stunted. It is
the equivalent of an Eddie Lewis going over seas and riding the pine for
Fulham. You develop more by getting playing time than you do just practicing
with a team in a better league. Where would Donovan be if he stayed in
Germany? Not on the WC team, imo.
Darrin
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 9/19/2002 8:58:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time, klindstr@flash.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">And let's turn that around -- Marco has his kids here. What if they (or<BR>
other soccer-talented-parent-raised-kids) turn out to be as good as their<BR>
parents and want to play well for the US? Are you going to turn them down<BR>
because their parents weren't "born citizens"?</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Sheesh. What's with the prejudice-jibe you are laying on Bruce? I thought he made a good point. The more green-carded players taking jobs in MLS, the less there are for players who could develop into U.S. national teamers. One of the problems with the NASL is that you had so few americans getting playing time. Yes, there is no current national teammer not getting playing time because of a green-carded player, but that isn't his point. He's worried about players with potential. He doesn't need to be concerned about the level of MLS play nor how much some Dallas dude loves his team. His concern, as *national team coach*, is to identify and help develop talented players for the U.S. player pool. If a USian is riding the pine because a green-carded player is in the spot, his development will be stunted. It is the equivalent of an Eddie Lewis going over seas and riding the pine for Fulham. You develop more by getting playing time than you do just practicing with a team in a bet
ter league. Where would Donovan be if he stayed in Germany? Not on the WC team, imo.<BR>
<BR>
Darrin</FONT></HTML>
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Thu Sep 19 22:26:54 2002
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From: Casbahman@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 01:26:57 EDT
Subject: Re: [nas] US Men rise to eighth inthe world in latest FIFA rankings
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In a message dated 9/19/2002 10:03:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
larkho@ghgcorp.com writes:
> You betcha. FIFA got lucky this one single time, and put us in exactly
> the right spot. I'm definitely not defending the ranking system as a
> whole, just that we are indeed the 8th best team in the world.
There are several million people in Europe who would disagree with you. But
thanks, I needed good giggle after a tough day. I think WC euphoria has
gotten into your head. No way we are the 8th best team in the world.
>
> Likewise, after WC98, we were overrated by the FIFA rankings. I just
> think it's strange that in this case, the USA placed 8th in BOTH the
> World Cup, and in the FIFA rankings--what objective evidence is there to
> the contrary?
I guess I didn't explain it well enough in my last email.
FIFA Ranking = Best team overall
WC Championship = Best team over 7 games
What if we had not finished 8th? What if we finished first? Would we be the
best team in the world? Wait...I know your answer. "You betcha!"
Let me try to argue this another way. If we played Brazil, current world
champions, and we beat them, would be now be considered the best in the
world? I mean, in your world a stretch of seven games is more indicative of
quality than a year's worth of results. So why wouldn't one game be just as
valid?
Of course it wouldn't, because maybe Brazil had a bad day. Well, France had
a bad tournament, much because they lost a key player. So should they now
have the rank of 32nd in the world?
>
> It obviously all depends on what you want any ranking system to
> rank--current quality vs. long-term quality. But it is utterly
> incomprehensible to me that if Turkey, for example, had won the World
> Cup, that many of y'all could with a straight face say the next day that
> they're not the best team in the world.
Consider us both incomprehensibled. It completely escapes me how you can
come to the conclusion that you did.
I'm > saying
> this simply because we are still in the immediate wake of the World Cup
> (you know, what used to be called the Football World Championship
> because it determined the World Champions).
Oh...is that what it does?
It determines the best team OVER A LIMITED STRETCH OF GAMES. The shorter
your stretch of games, the more likely that "the weird" will happen (i.e.
Zidane injury).
KNOCK...KNOCK...KNOCK...is this thing on?
Darrin
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 9/19/2002 10:03:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time, larkho@ghgcorp.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">You betcha. FIFA got lucky this one single time, and put us in exactly <BR>
the right spot. I'm definitely not defending the ranking system as a <BR>
whole, just that we are indeed the 8th best team in the world.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">There are several million people in Europe who would disagree with you. But thanks, I needed good giggle after a tough day. I think WC euphoria has gotten into your head. No way we are the 8th best team in the world.<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><BR>
Likewise, after WC98, we were overrated by the FIFA rankings. I just <BR>
think it's strange that in this case, the USA placed 8th in BOTH the <BR>
World Cup, and in the FIFA rankings--what objective evidence is there to <BR>
the contrary?</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">I guess I didn't explain it well enough in my last email. <BR>
<BR>
FIFA Ranking = Best team overall<BR>
WC Championship = Best team over 7 games<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
What if we had not finished 8th? What if we finished first? Would we be the best team in the world? Wait...I know your answer. "You betcha!"<BR>
<BR>
Let me try to argue this another way. If we played Brazil, current world champions, and we beat them, would be now be considered the best in the world? I mean, in your world a stretch of seven games is more indicative of quality than a year's worth of results. So why wouldn't one game be just as valid? <BR>
<BR>
Of course it wouldn't, because maybe Brazil had a bad day. Well, France had a bad tournament, much because they lost a key player. So should they now have the rank of 32nd in the world?<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><BR>
It obviously all depends on what you want any ranking system to <BR>
rank--current quality vs. long-term quality. But it is utterly <BR>
incomprehensible to me that if Turkey, for example, had won the World <BR>
Cup, that many of y'all could with a straight face say the next day that <BR>
they're not the best team in the world.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Consider us both incomprehensibled. It completely escapes me how you can come to the conclusion that you did.<BR>
<BR>
I'm <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> saying <BR>
this simply because we are still in the immediate wake of the World Cup <BR>
(you know, what used to be called the Football World Championship <BR>
because it determined the World Champions).</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
Oh...is that what it does? <BR>
<BR>
It determines the best team OVER A LIMITED STRETCH OF GAMES. The shorter your stretch of games, the more likely that "the weird" will happen (i.e. Zidane injury). <BR>
<BR>
KNOCK...KNOCK...KNOCK...is this thing on?<BR>
<BR>
Darrin</FONT></HTML>
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Thu Sep 19 23:16:06 2002
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Subject: Re: [nas] Hey Bruce -- p!ss off!
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First off -- apologies that I can't integrate my responses to the actual =
quote (my email prgram sucks).
Re: (1) -- name me 10 players who aren't playing in MLS because of =
players with green cards? Heck, name me one. Go by the Seattle =
Sounders or Rochester Rhinos -- if there really is this big issue out =
there, then surely on the two best teams in the A-League (genrally, =
anyway) there is a player or two who has lost their job to a green =
carded player... right?
So let me anticipate your answer a bit -- I think it is safe to say that =
there is not a real large concern, even in Dallas.
To compare where MLS is now to the NASL is more than a bit of a stretch, =
don't you think? Even in Bruce's 'worst nightmare' of Dallas, over half =
the main players are US players.
Re:(2) -- if you want to develop potential, they have to play with =
players who know the game. Even if you have all of the best USians come =
over, you still need more players who know the game and how to be =
professionals to make it work.
And quite frankly, to get cheesed off at someone because they buy into =
America enough to get a green card is a slap in the face. I can tell =
you that Eddie Johnson and Ryan Suarez are going to be much better =
players because of Oscar Pareja -- so yeah, how much he loves his team =
IS important. And I think the same will apply to Jordan Stone. And if =
you don't know those names, then maybe you might want to look into the =
details of the potential that you want to develop.
Re: (3) -- name them. More to the point, name the ones who are having =
their growth stunted. And as someone who has watched Eddie Johnson =
develop very slowly -- partly because he was 17 when he joined the team, =
through no fault of his own except because he is damn talented -- I =
think it is also smart that he had to earn his spot. And funny this, by =
taking it from another US player, Bobby Rhine. (Cerritos' contributions =
to this season are mostly letting us get rid of Ariel so that Jason can =
be the player he was and a handful of starts, all enhanced by a great =
example of professionalism that I hope Eddie took careful notes of.)
Let's take another example -- DMB. A great MLS player now, obviously =
one with talent worth of the MNT. But when he started in MLS, he was as =
immature as they come. Again, not through any fault of his own -- the =
guy was young. Unfortunately for LA, they traded him right before he =
came into his own. But do you think that DMB would be half the player =
he is now without Hristo and Peter?
Sure, pt is important. But so is developing talent at the right pace. =
It was good to see Bobby Convey score tonight (from a USian point of =
view -- certainly not from a Burn point of view) because since he joined =
the league and had a modicom of success early on, he has basically been =
non-existant. I am sure that was real good for his development.
How many US players litter the landscape having been the "next great US =
soccer hope?" Claudio almost succumed to it. Luckily, Landon didn't, =
and hopefully he has enough of a supporting cast that he doesn't (he is =
still real young).
And no, Landon wouldn't be half the player he was if it weren't for two =
things -- San Jose's MLS season in 2001 and the time he got with the MNT =
in 2002. Keep in mind, the difference between the Landon who played in =
Korea in 12-01 was nothing compared to the Landon that played in Suwon =
and Jeonju in 6-02. I have no doubt that pt is important.
But so is the right leadership. I think the images that will stick with =
me most will be the bookends of the US games -- Earnie and Landon. Once =
before the Portugal match and once after the Germany match. And funny =
that, Earnie isn't exactly 100% American, is he?
My point? First, yes, I take exception to Bruce calling Dallas out as a =
bad example of anything. We're not the best team in MLS, but we haven't =
missed the playoffs -- ever -- and have a championship to our name. =
We're better than half the league this year and players like Oscar and =
Zarco are key components of that. And yes, the Burn look to do quite a =
bit of developing talent over the next two to five years.
But the reason why I put this also on NAS is that I think it is very =
short-sighted of Bruce. Let me rephrase something -- where exactly did =
the US get Carlos Llamosa? Could it have been through a green card? =
And while Diego Gutierrez has yet to make a serious dent in the US =
player pool, he isn't a slouch, either. And I think it is also safe to =
say that many an MLS right wing and many an MLS forward have been =
bettered by playing against him. (I wish I could raise the issue of =
Chris Armas with some authority, but I don't know if he carried a green =
card although I know he had that issue with playing for Colombia in an =
unsanctioned youth tournament.)
So until you have a group of US players -- at least one per team -- who =
aren't getting pt because of too many green card players, I think Bruce =
is being short sighted.
And yes, I do think that the divide between the middle-class, usually =
white-folk players and the foreign-born players is an issue that the Fed =
and MLS will have to address. Your example of Landon is a perfect one =
here. If you know Landon like a Qlash fan should, then you know he =
learned Spanish by playing with Hispanic players, not in a classroom or =
from family. I think it is safe to say that a good bit of his playing =
style comes from that same education group. Why do you think his vision =
is so sharp? Why do you think the mental side of his game is so far =
ahead of so many US players?
And so I am worried about it as a fan of the US team. We need players =
like Marcelo Balboa, Tab Ramos, Claudio Reyna, Landon Donovan, Carlos =
Llamosa, DMB, etc. -- players who were either not born in the US or were =
influenced by players who weren't born in the US. By saying what he =
did, Bruce is either (A) showing his bias against Dallas, or (B) showing =
a bias against non-US-born players. The former, while if true is =
frustrating to a fan of that particular team, is no real big deal -- =
every NT coach has teams they like and teams they don't. The latter, =
though, worries me deeply because it belies a limiting attitude about =
player who in some situations will help the team directly, and others =
indirectly. Once again, Carlos Llamosa.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Casbahman@aol.com=20
(1) Sheesh. What's with the prejudice-jibe you are laying on Bruce? I =
thought he made a good point. The more green-carded players taking jobs =
in MLS, the less there are for players who could develop into U.S. =
national teamers. One of the problems with the NASL is that you had so =
few americans getting playing time. Yes, there is no current national =
teammer not getting playing time because of a green-carded player, but =
that isn't his point. He's worried about players with potential.
(2) He doesn't need to be concerned about the level of MLS play nor =
how much some Dallas dude loves his team. His concern, as *national =
team coach*, is to identify and help develop talented players for the =
U.S. player pool.
(3) If a USian is riding the pine because a green-carded player is in =
the spot, his development will be stunted. It is the equivalent of an =
Eddie Lewis going over seas and riding the pine for Fulham. You develop =
more by getting pla! ying time than you do just practicing with a team =
in a bet ter league. Where would Donovan be if he stayed in Germany? =
Not on the WC team, imo.
Darrin=20
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>First off -- apologies that I can't =
integrate my=20
responses to the actual quote (my email prgram sucks).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Re: (1) -- name me 10 players who =
aren't playing in=20
MLS because of players with green cards? Heck, name me one. =
Go by=20
the Seattle Sounders or Rochester Rhinos -- if there really is this big =
issue=20
out there, then surely on the two best teams in the A-League (genrally, =
anyway)=20
there is a player or two who has lost their job to a green carded =
player...=20
right?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So let me anticipate your answer a bit =
-- I think=20
it is safe to say that there is not a real large concern, even in=20
Dallas.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>To compare where MLS is now to the NASL =
is more=20
than a bit of a stretch, don't you think? Even in Bruce's 'worst=20
nightmare' of Dallas, over half the main players are US =
players.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Re:(2) -- if you want to develop =
potential, they=20
have to play with players who know the game. Even if you have all =
of the=20
best USians come over, you still need more players who know the game and =
how to=20
be professionals to make it work.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And quite frankly, to get cheesed off =
at someone=20
because they buy into America enough to get a green card is a slap in =
the=20
face. I can tell you that Eddie Johnson and Ryan Suarez are =
going to=20
be much better players because of Oscar Pareja -- so yeah, how much =
he=20
loves his team IS important. And I think the same will apply to =
Jordan=20
Stone. And if you don't know those names, then maybe you might =
want to=20
look into the details of the potential that you want to =
develop.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Re: (3) -- name them. More to the =
point, name=20
the ones who are having their growth stunted. And as someone who =
has=20
watched Eddie Johnson develop very slowly -- partly because he was 17 =
when he=20
joined the team, through no fault of his own except because he is damn =
talented=20
-- I think it is also smart that he had to earn his spot. And =
funny this,=20
by taking it from another US player, Bobby Rhine. (Cerritos' =
contributions=20
to this season are mostly letting us get rid of Ariel so that Jason can =
be the=20
player he was and a handful of starts, all enhanced by a great example =
of=20
professionalism that I hope Eddie took careful notes of.)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Let's take another example -- =
DMB. A great=20
MLS player now, obviously one with talent worth of the MNT. But =
when he=20
started in MLS, he was as immature as they come. Again, not =
through any=20
fault of his own -- the guy was young. Unfortunately for LA, they =
traded=20
him right before he came into his own. But do you think that DMB =
would be=20
half the player he is now without Hristo and Peter?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sure, pt is important. But so is =
developing=20
talent at the right pace. It was good to see Bobby Convey score =
tonight=20
(from a USian point of view -- certainly not from a Burn point of view) =
because=20
since he joined the league and had a modicom of success early on, he has =
basically been non-existant. I am sure that was real good for his=20
development.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>How many US players litter the =
landscape having=20
been the "next great US soccer hope?" Claudio almost succumed to =
it. =20
Luckily, Landon didn't, and hopefully he has enough of a supporting cast =
that he=20
doesn't (he is still real young).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And no, Landon wouldn't be half the =
player he was=20
if it weren't for two things -- San Jose's MLS season in 2001 and the =
time he=20
got with the MNT in 2002. Keep in mind, the difference between the =
Landon=20
who played in Korea in 12-01 was nothing compared to the Landon that =
played in=20
Suwon and Jeonju in 6-02. I have no doubt that pt is=20
important.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>But so is the right leadership. I =
think the=20
images that will stick with me most will be the bookends of the US games =
--=20
Earnie and Landon. Once before the Portugal match and once after =
the=20
Germany match. And funny that, Earnie isn't exactly 100% American, =
is=20
he?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My point? First, yes, I take =
exception to=20
Bruce calling Dallas out as a bad example of anything. We're not =
the best=20
team in MLS, but we haven't missed the playoffs -- ever -- and have a=20
championship to our name. We're better than half the league this =
year and=20
players like Oscar and Zarco are key components of that. And yes, =
the Burn=20
look to do quite a bit of developing talent over the next two to five=20
years.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>But the reason why I put this also on =
NAS is that I=20
think it is very short-sighted of Bruce. Let me rephrase something =
--=20
where exactly did the US get Carlos Llamosa? Could it have been =
through a=20
green card? And while Diego Gutierrez has yet to make a serious =
dent in=20
the US player pool, he isn't a slouch, either. And I think it is =
also safe=20
to say that many an MLS right wing and many an MLS forward have been =
bettered by=20
playing against him. (I wish I could raise the issue of Chris =
Armas with=20
some authority, but I don't know if he carried a green card although I =
know he=20
had that issue with playing for Colombia in an unsanctioned youth=20
tournament.)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So until you have a group of US players =
-- at least=20
one per team -- who aren't getting pt because of too many green card =
players, I=20
think Bruce is being short sighted.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And yes, I do think that the divide =
between the=20
middle-class, usually white-folk players and the foreign-born players is =
an=20
issue that the Fed and MLS will have to address. Your example of =
Landon is=20
a perfect one here. If you know Landon like a Qlash fan should, =
then you=20
know he learned Spanish by playing with Hispanic players, not in a =
classroom or=20
from family. I think it is safe to say that a good bit of his =
playing=20
style comes from that same education group. Why do you think his =
vision is=20
so sharp? Why do you think the mental side of his game is so far =
ahead of=20
so many US players?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And so I am worried about it as a fan =
of the US=20
team. We need players like Marcelo Balboa, Tab Ramos, Claudio =
Reyna,=20
Landon Donovan, Carlos Llamosa, DMB, etc. -- players who were either not =
born in=20
the US or were influenced by players who weren't born in the US. =
By saying=20
what he did, Bruce is either (A) showing his bias against Dallas, or (B) =
showing=20
a bias against non-US-born players. The former, while if true is=20
frustrating to a fan of that particular team, is no real big deal -- =
every NT=20
coach has teams they like and teams they don't. The latter, =
though,=20
worries me deeply because it belies a limiting attitude about player who =
in some=20
situations will help the team directly, and others indirectly. =
Once again,=20
Carlos Llamosa.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:Casbahman@aol.com"=20
title=3DCasbahman@aol.com>Casbahman@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2><BR>(1) Sheesh. =
What's with=20
the prejudice-jibe you are laying on Bruce? I thought he made a good=20
point. The more green-carded players taking jobs in MLS, the =
less there=20
are for players who could develop into U.S. national teamers. =
One of the=20
problems with the NASL is that you had so few americans getting =
playing=20
time. Yes, there is no current national teammer not getting =
playing time=20
because of a green-carded player, but that isn't his point. He's =
worried=20
about players with potential.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>(2) He doesn't =
need to be=20
concerned about the level of MLS play nor how much some Dallas dude =
loves his=20
team. His concern, as *national team coach*, is to identify and =
help=20
develop talented players for the U.S. player pool.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>(3) If a USian =
is riding=20
the pine because a green-carded player is in the spot, his development =
will be=20
stunted. It is the equivalent of an Eddie Lewis going over seas =
and=20
riding the pine for Fulham. You develop more by getting pla! =
ying time=20
than you do just practicing with a team in a bet ter league. =
Where would=20
Donovan be if he stayed in Germany? Not on the WC team,=20
imo.<BR><BR>Darrin</FONT> </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Thu Sep 19 23:56:23 2002
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From: TheWizardofld@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 02:56:26 EDT
Subject: [nas] Metro to play in Newark if they make the playoffs
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Because the NJSEA does not care one bit about the MetroStars, and booked the
Rolling Stones fo an entire month, the Metros have been forced to plans for
an alternate site incase they make the playoffs. The Metros will play in
Newarks Riverfront Stadium, a minor league baseball stadium. I am not 100%
sure of the attendance but will say off hand that it is 10,000 max!
Ed
"There's nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" -
Shakespeare
__________________________________________________________________
"Men are not disturbed by things, but by the view they take of
them."
Epictetus (The Enchiridion)
___________________________________________________________________
"For as he thinks within himself, so he is" Book of Proverbs (23: 7)
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT COLOR="#0000a0" SIZE=2>Because the NJSEA does not care one bit about the MetroStars, and booked the Rolling Stones fo an entire month, the Metros have been forced to plans for an alternate site incase they make the playoffs. The Metros will play in Newarks Riverfront Stadium, a minor league baseball stadium. I am not 100% sure of the attendance but will say off hand that it is 10,000 max!
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000080" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>
<BR>Ed
<BR>
<BR><P ALIGN=CENTER> "There's nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" - Shakespeare
<BR><P ALIGN=LEFT>__________________________________________________________________
<BR> "Men are not disturbed by things, but by the view they take of them."
<BR> Epictetus (The Enchiridion)
<BR>___________________________________________________________________
<BR><P ALIGN=CENTER> "For as he thinks within himself, so he is" Book of Proverbs (23: 7)</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000a0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
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From: Casbahman@aol.com
Message-ID: <d6.1caef1c8.2abc20c9@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 02:57:13 EDT
Subject: [nas] Some vindication
To: nas@americakicks.com, sanjose-mls@yahoogroups.com
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SJ fans got some vindication from the league. Against the Crew recently,
Donovan was taken down from behind on a clear goal scoring opportunity. The
defender only got a yellow. According to the following link:
http://www.mlsnet.com/content/02/mls0919denial.html
...the league basically says that the ref should have given red.
On a related note, Troy Dayak was on a KNBR sports talk show today and he
stated that the Head of Refs talked to Yallop over the phone, stating that
the refs blew the call which allowed Ruiz to score from an offsides position
in injury time of the Galaxy 1-0 win over the Quakes. Further, Troy stated
that the Head of Refs was "mortified" (I think that was the word) and the ref
who blew the call was suspended. He did not state whether it was the center
ref or the linesman who was suspended. I suspect it would be the linesman.
Oh, and when Rick Barry, the interviewer, asked Troy about the upcoming
Galaxy/Quake rematch, Troy said,"I hate those guys....We're gonna have to
tattoo our quake logo all over them." Troy, yer my hero....
Ticket sales for the Quakes final game of the season are approaching 20,000.
Yes, us northern Californians love to hate LA.
Darrin
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 03:57:11 EDT
Subject: Re: [nas] Hey Bruce -- p!ss off!
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In a message dated 9/19/2002 11:17:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
klindstr@flash.net writes:
> Re: (1) -- name me 10 players who aren't playing in MLS because of players
> with green cards? Heck, name me one. Go by the Seattle Sounders or
> Rochester Rhinos -- if there really is this big issue out there, then
> surely on the two best teams in the A-League (genrally, anyway) there is a
> player or two who has lost their job to a green carded player... right?
I don't profess any knowledge of the A-League nor its players so I can't
answer the question. I don't know that it is neceessary though. The bottom
line is that actual game time in the best league you can possibly play in is
the best way to develop. You can't deny that a league with 10 green-carded
players takes 10 spots away from players with potential to play on the US
team. Take a bubble player like Eddie Lewis. When Eddie arrived in MLS, he
was all speed and little talent. Gametime gave him his opportunity. Would
he have made the Clash roster, let alone get any playing time if the Clash
had 3 or 4 green-carded players? Without the opportunity, we may never have
seen the beautiful cross to Donovan for the second goal against Mexico. Now
he is languishing in England while riding the bench. Being surrounded by all
that talent isn't exactly helping his development is it?
> To compare where MLS is now to the NASL is more than a bit of a stretch,
> don't you think?
I wasn't really comparing, simply pointing out that the NASL did not give
american players the chance to develop. I was only 14 when the league folded
but it didn't seem that the NASL's priority was developing US talent. MLS
has acknowledged that it is important
> Re:(2) -- if you want to develop potential, they have to play with players
> who know the game. Even if you have all of the best USians come over, you
> still need more players who know the game and how to be professionals to
> make it work.
Agreed. But how many of these superior foreign players are needed to make
that impact? Is three enough? What about 5?
Now, here I will use the NASL. Didn't the NASL require at least 5 US players
on each roster? Why don't we do that? 5 US players, the rest SIs and
green-carders. Certainly those 5 will be saturated with the knowledge from
all of that talent, right? Think of the quality of the US player pool then!
We might win the WC.
I'm being a smart ass but you get my point, right? According to your logic,
we should put a minimum of US players and fill the rosters with other
seasoned foreign talent.
If I had to come up with a crude number, I would say have no more than 5
players per team (whatever combination of green carders & SIs) and have the
rest be US Nat eligible. I think that is adequate in order to have enough
playing time for USians to develop while also absorbing soccer knowledge from
foreign players.
> And quite frankly, to get cheesed off at someone because they buy into
> America enough to get a green card is a slap in the face.
DUDE! Get a grip. This is the whole quote from the article:"The green-card
ruling is not in the best interests of the national team. Look at Dallas. How
many of those guys are Americans? But that's life."
Where the hell does it say he is anti-immigrant? That is what you are
intimating. His commentary was directly soccer related. Stop reading
prejudistic sentiments into it. Christ. You seem like you want to put him
on trial for a hate crime for crying out loud.
> Let's take another example -- DMB. A great MLS player now, obviously one
> with talent worth of the MNT. But when he started in MLS, he was as
> immature as they come. Again, not through any fault of his own -- the guy
> was young. Unfortunately for LA, they traded him right before he came into
> his own. But do you think that DMB would be half the player he is now
> without Hristo and Peter?
Yea, couldn't be the influence of the coach, eh? Or any number of players.
You might as well say Richard Mulrooney is the player he is today because
Khodedad Azizi was on the team. They may be related to DMB's development,
they may not.
> Sure, pt is important. But so is developing talent at the right pace. It
> was good to see Bobby Convey score tonight (from a USian point of view --
> certainly not from a Burn point of view) because since he joined the league
> and had a modicom of success early on, he has basically been non-existant.
> I am sure that was real good for his development.
Huh? Since he has playing time but has not developed, that proves your
point? You are reaching, really. Where was the miraculous teachings of
Etcheverry & Moreno? I could just as easily, and just as ludicrously, use
Bobby Convey to prove that foreign talent does not help develop US talent.
That argument would be ludicrous because there is no way I can quantify the
impact of Etcheverry or Moreno on Convey. Don't let facts get in the way of
your argument though....
> But so is the right leadership. I think the images that will stick with me
> most will be the bookends of the US games -- Earnie and Landon. Once
> before the Portugal match and once after the Germany match. And funny
> that, Earnie isn't exactly 100% American, is he?
So now Landon was the WC player that he was due to Earnie & the fact that
Earnie isn't 100% American?
I give up.
My point is that there is a balance. You have to nurture talent with good
coaching, good mentoring, (be it foreign or domestic) and playing time.
Bruce questioned the balance in MLS with one simple statement. Then you
intimate racist, or at least anti-foreigner tendencies in Bruce.
Uncalled for and unfounded.
> And yes, I do think that the divide between the middle-class, usually
> white-folk players and the foreign-born players is an issue that the Fed
> and MLS will have to address.
And this has to do with what in our discussion?
Your example of Landon is a perfect one here. If you know Landon like a
Qlash
> fan should, then you know he learned Spanish by playing with Hispanic
> players, not in a classroom or from family.
Dude, you are on your soapbox and there is no stopping you now so I'm not
going to try.
I think it is safe to say that a good bit of his playing style comes from
that same
> education group. Why do you think his vision is so sharp? Why do you think
> the mental side of his game is so far ahead of so many US players?
Well, if you knew Landon like us Qlash fans do, you would know that he thinks
his vision is because his dad was a hockey player and had excellent vision.
But then, I guess you are right because in reality, Landon is a
"middle-class, usually white-folk player" who doesn't appreciate all that his
latin brothers have taught him. His is in "middle-class, usually white-folk
player" denial.
I'm glad I'm married to a Mexican. Otherwise, after your argument, I might
feel guilty for being white.
Darrin
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 9/19/2002 11:17:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time, klindstr@flash.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Re: (1) -- name me 10 players who aren't playing in MLS because of players with green cards? Heck, name me one. Go by the Seattle Sounders or Rochester Rhinos -- if there really is this big issue out there, then surely on the two best teams in the A-League (genrally, anyway) there is a player or two who has lost their job to a green carded player... right?</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
I don't profess any knowledge of the A-League nor its players so I can't answer the question. I don't know that it is neceessary though. The bottom line is that actual game time in the best league you can possibly play in is the best way to develop. You can't deny that a league with 10 green-carded players takes 10 spots away from players with potential to play on the US team. Take a bubble player like Eddie Lewis. When Eddie arrived in MLS, he was all speed and little talent. Gametime gave him his opportunity. Would he have made the Clash roster, let alone get any playing time if the Clash had 3 or 4 green-carded players? Without the opportunity, we may never have seen the beautiful cross to Donovan for the second goal against Mexico. Now he is languishing in England while riding the bench. Being surrounded by all that talent isn't exactly helping his development is it?<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">To compare where MLS is now to the NASL is more than a bit of a stretch, don't you think?</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">I wasn't really comparing, simply pointing out that the NASL did not give american players the chance to develop. I was only 14 when the league folded but it didn't seem that the NASL's priority was developing US talent. MLS has acknowledged that it is important<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Re:(2) -- if you want to develop potential, they have to play with players who know the game. Even if you have all of the best USians come over, you still need more players who know the game and how to be professionals to make it work.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Agreed. But how many of these superior foreign players are needed to make that impact? Is three enough? What about 5?<BR>
<BR>
Now, here I will use the NASL. Didn't the NASL require at least 5 US players on each roster? Why don't we do that? 5 US players, the rest SIs and green-carders. Certainly those 5 will be saturated with the knowledge from all of that talent, right? Think of the quality of the US player pool then! We might win the WC.<BR>
<BR>
I'm being a smart ass but you get my point, right? According to your logic, we should put a minimum of US players and fill the rosters with other seasoned foreign talent.<BR>
<BR>
If I had to come up with a crude number, I would say have no more than 5 players per team (whatever combination of green carders & SIs) and have the rest be US Nat eligible. I think that is adequate in order to have enough playing time for USians to develop while also absorbing soccer knowledge from foreign players.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">And quite frankly, to get cheesed off at someone because they buy into America enough to get a green card is a slap in the face.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">DUDE! Get a grip. This is the whole quote from the article:"The green-card ruling is not in the best interests of the national team. Look at Dallas. How many of those guys are Americans? But that's life." <BR>
<BR>
Where the hell does it say he is anti-immigrant? That is what you are intimating. His commentary was directly soccer related. Stop reading prejudistic sentiments into it. Christ. You seem like you want to put him on trial for a hate crime for crying out loud.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Let's take another example -- DMB. A great MLS player now, obviously one with talent worth of the MNT. But when he started in MLS, he was as immature as they come. Again, not through any fault of his own -- the guy was young. Unfortunately for LA, they traded him right before he came into his own. But do you think that DMB would be half the player he is now without Hristo and Peter?</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Yea, couldn't be the influence of the coach, eh? Or any number of players. You might as well say Richard Mulrooney is the player he is today because Khodedad Azizi was on the team. They may be related to DMB's development, they may not.<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Sure, pt is important. But so is developing talent at the right pace. It was good to see Bobby Convey score tonight (from a USian point of view -- certainly not from a Burn point of view) because since he joined the league and had a modicom of success early on, he has basically been non-existant. I am sure that was real good for his development.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Huh? Since he has playing time but has not developed, that proves your point? You are reaching, really. Where was the miraculous teachings of Etcheverry & Moreno? I could just as easily, and just as ludicrously, use Bobby Convey to prove that foreign talent does not help develop US talent. That argument would be ludicrous because there is no way I can quantify the impact of Etcheverry or Moreno on Convey. Don't let facts get in the way of your argument though....<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">But so is the right leadership. I think the images that will stick with me most will be the bookends of the US games -- Earnie and Landon. Once before the Portugal match and once after the Germany match. And funny that, Earnie isn't exactly 100% American, is he?</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">So now Landon was the WC player that he was due to Earnie & the fact that Earnie isn't 100% American? <BR>
<BR>
I give up.<BR>
<BR>
My point is that there is a balance. You have to nurture talent with good coaching, good mentoring, (be it foreign or domestic) and playing time. Bruce questioned the balance in MLS with one simple statement. Then you intimate racist, or at least anti-foreigner tendencies in Bruce. <BR>
<BR>
Uncalled for and unfounded. </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">And yes, I do think that the divide between the middle-class, usually white-folk players and the foreign-born players is an issue that the Fed and MLS will have to address.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">And this has to do with what in our discussion?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Your example of Landon is a perfect one here. If you know Landon like a Qlash </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">fan should, then you know he learned Spanish by playing with Hispanic players, not in a classroom or from family.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Dude, you are on your soapbox and there is no stopping you now so I'm not going to try.<BR>
<BR>
I think it is safe to say that a good bit of his playing style comes from that same </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">education group. Why do you think his vision is so sharp? Why do you think the mental side of his game is so far ahead of so many US players?</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Well, if you knew Landon like us Qlash fans do, you would know that he thinks his vision is because his dad was a hockey player and had excellent vision. But then, I guess you are right because in reality, Landon is a "middle-class, usually white-folk player" who doesn't appreciate all that his latin brothers have taught him. His is in "middle-class, usually white-folk player" denial. <BR>
<BR>
I'm glad I'm married to a Mexican. Otherwise, after your argument, I might feel guilty for being white.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Darrin<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Fri Sep 20 05:50:24 2002
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 08:50:15 -0400
From: Buzahn@aol.com
To: mrmoore01@prodigy.net, nas@americakicks.com
Subject: Re: [nas] MLS- verdict year 2002
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In a message dated Thu, 19 Sep 2002 10:12:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, mrmoore01@prodigy.net writes:
> God what tripe.
>
I agree the guy shouldn't have written with such a negative tone but what do you have against tripe? Have you never enjoyed a good bowl of menudo, especially after a hard night of drinking?
Ed :-)
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 09:15:49 -0400
From: Keith Bundy <kdaleb@wsu.edu>
Subject: Re: [nas] US Men rise to eighth inthe world in latest FIFA rankings
To: mrmoore01@prodigy.net, nas@americakicks.com
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Are you saying that Wales would consistently beat us or that they might get a result
against us? I wasn't saying the rankings were that accurate, just that since FIFA uses
them as part of the seeding process at World Cups, they might actually help us get one
of eight seeds in Germany, and avoid the likes of Germany, Brazil, and Argentina in
group play. From the viewpoint of an American homer, I don't care if the rankings are
rank, as long as they benefit the good ol' USA.
:-)
----- Original Message -----
From: <mrmoore01@prodigy.net>
Let's not get ahead of ourselves....
anyone think Wales is some kind of rollover?
I think Wales could give us all we want and would
not really surprise me if they got a result against
us- yet- they did not qualify and are currenty....
73rd....... We are 8th.....Wales 73rd.....
give me a break.
Jeff
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Keith Bundy kdaleb@wsu.edu
I cannot argue the point that there are more than seven teams in the world
better than the US, however, I'm not sure that there are 18 teams that are.
The only reason I concern myself with world rankings is a possible seed in
Germany... that would be wild, and it is possible (I won't do all that stats
again, though). That's why I value the FIFA rankings over Elo.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Welpton" <peter@lexandterry.com>
http://sports.yahoo.com/m/world/news/reuters/20020918/reu-rankingsdc.html
>
> OK, we had a major debate about the reality of this thing not too long
ago.
>
> Can anyone really defend this? Come on, EIGHTH? Over England and Italy?
>
> Now, if you remember, I am a supporter of the Elo Ranking system that
> currently has the US at 19th. http://www.eloratings.net
>
> While not perfect, a much more accurate picture of International Football.
>
> let the overly exhaustive and debated thread BEGIN!!
>
> peet
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To: ABC NAS <nas@americakicks.com>
Subject: RE: [nas] Burn vs DC United [R]
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THAT is what MLS needs to sell ! I think my ribs hurt just from seeing
Bonseau (sp?) crash into the post.
A cracker of a match - although the playoffs aren't quite the same w/out
DCU.
Importantly for the National Squad (maybe...), did Ben Olsen look damn good,
or was it just me ?
Forza Crew from here on out !!
ps - Those who say Robbie Fowler is the ugliest man in football have never
seen Etch.
Steve
steve.krall@daytonoh.ncr.com <mailto:steve.krall@daytonoh.ncr.com>
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<DIV><SPAN class=680590014-20092002><FONT face=Arial color=#008080 size=2>THAT
is what MLS needs to sell ! I think my ribs hurt just from seeing
Bonseau (sp?) crash into the post.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=680590014-20092002><FONT face=Arial color=#008080
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=680590014-20092002><FONT face=Arial color=#008080 size=2>A
cracker of a match - although the playoffs aren't quite the same w/out
DCU.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=680590014-20092002><FONT face=Arial color=#008080
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=680590014-20092002><FONT face=Arial color=#008080
size=2>Importantly for the National Squad (maybe...), did Ben Olsen look damn
good, or was it just me ?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=680590014-20092002><FONT face=Arial color=#008080
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=680590014-20092002><FONT face=Arial color=#008080 size=2>Forza
Crew from here on out !!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=680590014-20092002><FONT face=Arial color=#008080
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=680590014-20092002><FONT face=Arial color=#008080 size=2>ps -
Those who say Robbie Fowler is the ugliest man in football have never seen
Etch.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=680590014-20092002><FONT face=Arial color=#008080
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=680590014-20092002><FONT face=Arial color=#008080
size=2>Steve</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=680590014-20092002><FONT face=Arial color=#008080 size=2><A
href="mailto:steve.krall@daytonoh.ncr.com";>steve.krall@daytonoh.ncr.com</A></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=680590014-20092002><FONT face=Arial color=#008080
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#008080 size=2></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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From: AbraRob@aol.com
Message-ID: <6a.26639c5e.2abc86d2@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:12:34 EDT
Subject: Re: [nas] Metro to play in Newark if they make the playoffs
To: nas@americakicks.com
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At least they are re-sodding the infield.
Also, no cheap tickets. $25 mimum in advance. Season ticketholders are the
beneficiaries, especially the ones who bought he cheap seats ($15 aprox.),
like me.
One thing that will fun, ESC will sound be pretty loud in that place. Just
hope they keep the cursing to a minimum as they're might be lots of kids.
Cheers!
Robert.
In a message dated 9/20/02 2:58:29 AM, TheWizardofld@aol.com writes:
<< Because the NJSEA does not care one bit about the MetroStars, and booked
the
Rolling Stones fo an entire month, the Metros have been forced to plans for
an alternate site incase they make the playoffs. The Metros will play in
Newarks Riverfront Stadium, a minor league baseball stadium. I am not 100%
sure of the attendance but will say off hand that it is 10,000 max! >>
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Fri Sep 20 07:20:01 2002
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:20:09 -0400
From: mbabyak@duke.edu
To: ABC NAS <nas@americakicks.com>
Subject: RE: [nas] Burn vs DC United [R]
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Just finished watching the tape of this one this morning. Indeed, may have
been the most intense match of the season I've seen--great game, great
atmosphere. Maybe Ali Curtis really does have a future in MLS? Benny has
looked better each appearance since his return, which makes sense since so
much of his game relies on fitness. Despite the lovely setup of Curtis at
the end, Etch was utter crap, giving balls away, standing around in
midfield, and worst, dreadful free kicks and corners. He's gone for sure
next season. Bet you see him in the J- or even K-League. Dallas deserved
the win, I think, but they certainly aren't the same team I saw in
midseason.
Mike Babyak
--On Friday, September 20, 2002 10:04 AM -0400 "Krall, Stephen E"
<SK131281@exchange.DAYTONOH.NCR.com> wrote:
>
> THAT is what MLS needs to sell ! I think my ribs hurt just from seeing
> Bonseau (sp?) crash into the post.
> A cracker of a match - although the playoffs aren't quite the same w/out
> DCU.
> Importantly for the National Squad (maybe...), did Ben Olsen look damn
> good, or was it just me ?
> Forza Crew from here on out !!
>
> ps - Those who say Robbie Fowler is the ugliest man in football have
> never seen Etch.
> Steve
> steve.krall@daytonoh.ncr.com
>
>
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Fri Sep 20 07:23:55 2002
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:20:25 -0400
To: Casbahman@aol.com,nas@americakicks.com
From: Niall Swan <nialls@rcn.com>
Subject: Re: [nas] Hey Bruce --
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Anyway, if a player is young, and he is good he could still play for the
US. Three years after marrying someone (if he was on a green card) he can
become a US Citizen. Or if not the marrying type, 5 years after being here
by himself, he can become a U.S. citizen. So, if I am 20, I could become a
US nats player by 24-26 - lots of time to develop my game. So the door
ain't shut!
Incidentally, the best way to help players develop in this period is to
expose them to the nuances and styles of other leagues in addition to their
own - like a CL for the Americas. This benefits many players in Europe.
Could we enter one of the current tournaments, like the Copa Libertores?
Niall
The Soccer Resort
www.soccerresort.com
Soccer vacations in the Sun
At 03:57 AM 9/20/02 -0400, Casbahman@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 9/19/2002 11:17:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>klindstr@flash.net writes:
>
>
>>Re: (1) -- name me 10 players who aren't playing in MLS because of
>>players with green cards? Heck, name me one. Go by the Seattle Sounders
>>or Rochester Rhinos -- if there really is this big issue out there, then
>>surely on the two best teams in the A-League (genrally, anyway) there is
>>a player or two who has lost their job to a green carded player... right?
>
>
>
>I don't profess any knowledge of the A-League nor its players so I can't
>answer the question. I don't know that it is neceessary though. The
>bottom line is that actual game time in the best league you can possibly
>play in is the best way to develop. You can't deny that a league with 10
>green-carded players takes 10 spots away from players with potential to
>play on the US team. Take a bubble player like Eddie Lewis. When Eddie
>arrived in MLS, he was all speed and little talent. Gametime gave him his
>opportunity. Would he have made the Clash roster, let alone get any
>playing time if the Clash had 3 or 4 green-carded players? Without the
>opportunity, we may never have seen the beautiful cross to Donovan for the
>second goal against Mexico. Now he is languishing in England while riding
>the bench. Being surrounded by all that talent isn't exactly helping his
>development is it?
>
>
>
>>To compare where MLS is now to the NASL is more than a bit of a stretch,
>>don't you think?
>
>
>I wasn't really comparing, simply pointing out that the NASL did not give
>american players the chance to develop. I was only 14 when the league
>folded but it didn't seem that the NASL's priority was developing US
>talent. MLS has acknowledged that it is important
>
>>Re:(2) -- if you want to develop potential, they have to play with
>>players who know the game. Even if you have all of the best USians come
>>over, you still need more players who know the game and how to be
>>professionals to make it work.
>
>
>Agreed. But how many of these superior foreign players are needed to make
>that impact? Is three enough? What about 5?
>
>Now, here I will use the NASL. Didn't the NASL require at least 5 US
>players on each roster? Why don't we do that? 5 US players, the rest SIs
>and green-carders. Certainly those 5 will be saturated with the knowledge
>from all of that talent, right? Think of the quality of the US player
>pool then! We might win the WC.
>
>I'm being a smart ass but you get my point, right? According to your
>logic, we should put a minimum of US players and fill the rosters with
>other seasoned foreign talent.
>
>If I had to come up with a crude number, I would say have no more than 5
>players per team (whatever combination of green carders & SIs) and have
>the rest be US Nat eligible. I think that is adequate in order to have
>enough playing time for USians to develop while also absorbing soccer
>knowledge from foreign players.
>
>>And quite frankly, to get cheesed off at someone because they buy into
>>America enough to get a green card is a slap in the face.
>
>
>DUDE! Get a grip. This is the whole quote from the article:"The
>green-card ruling is not in the best interests of the national team. Look
>at Dallas. How many of those guys are Americans? But that's life."
>
>Where the hell does it say he is anti-immigrant? That is what you are
>intimating. His commentary was directly soccer related. Stop reading
>prejudistic sentiments into it. Christ. You seem like you want to put
>him on trial for a hate crime for crying out loud.
>
>
>>Let's take another example -- DMB. A great MLS player now, obviously one
>>with talent worth of the MNT. But when he started in MLS, he was as
>>immature as they come. Again, not through any fault of his own -- the
>>guy was young. Unfortunately for LA, they traded him right before he
>>came into his own. But do you think that DMB would be half the player he
>>is now without Hristo and Peter?
>
>
>Yea, couldn't be the influence of the coach, eh? Or any number of
>players. You might as well say Richard Mulrooney is the player he is
>today because Khodedad Azizi was on the team. They may be related to
>DMB's development, they may not.
>
>
>>Sure, pt is important. But so is developing talent at the right
>>pace. It was good to see Bobby Convey score tonight (from a USian point
>>of view -- certainly not from a Burn point of view) because since he
>>joined the league and had a modicom of success early on, he has basically
>>been non-existant. I am sure that was real good for his development.
>
>
>Huh? Since he has playing time but has not developed, that proves your
>point? You are reaching, really. Where was the miraculous teachings of
>Etcheverry & Moreno? I could just as easily, and just as ludicrously, use
>Bobby Convey to prove that foreign talent does not help develop US
>talent. That argument would be ludicrous because there is no way I can
>quantify the impact of Etcheverry or Moreno on Convey. Don't let facts
>get in the way of your argument though....
>
>
>
>
>>But so is the right leadership. I think the images that will stick with
>>me most will be the bookends of the US games -- Earnie and Landon. Once
>>before the Portugal match and once after the Germany match. And funny
>>that, Earnie isn't exactly 100% American, is he?
>
>
>So now Landon was the WC player that he was due to Earnie & the fact that
>Earnie isn't 100% American?
>
>I give up.
>
>My point is that there is a balance. You have to nurture talent with good
>coaching, good mentoring, (be it foreign or domestic) and playing
>time. Bruce questioned the balance in MLS with one simple
>statement. Then you intimate racist, or at least anti-foreigner
>tendencies in Bruce.
>
>Uncalled for and unfounded.
>
>>And yes, I do think that the divide between the middle-class, usually
>>white-folk players and the foreign-born players is an issue that the Fed
>>and MLS will have to address.
>
>
>And this has to do with what in our discussion?
>
>
>
> Your example of Landon is a perfect one here. If you know Landon
> like a Qlash
>>fan should, then you know he learned Spanish by playing with Hispanic
>>players, not in a classroom or from family.
>
>
>Dude, you are on your soapbox and there is no stopping you now so I'm not
>going to try.
>
> I think it is safe to say that a good bit of his playing style comes
> from that same
>>education group. Why do you think his vision is so sharp? Why do you
>>think the mental side of his game is so far ahead of so many US players?
>
>
>Well, if you knew Landon like us Qlash fans do, you would know that he
>thinks his vision is because his dad was a hockey player and had excellent
>vision. But then, I guess you are right because in reality, Landon is a
>"middle-class, usually white-folk player" who doesn't appreciate all that
>his latin brothers have taught him. His is in "middle-class, usually
>white-folk player" denial.
>
>I'm glad I'm married to a Mexican. Otherwise, after your argument, I
>might feel guilty for being white.
>
>
>Darrin
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 07:44:01 -0700
Subject: [nas] Donovan, Friedel, Reyna finalist for Honda player of the year
From: <big_dog@fastmail.fm>
To: NAS <NAS@americakicks.com>
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http://sports.yahoo.com/m/sow/news/ap/20020919/ap-hondaawardfinalists.html
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 07:52:37 -0700
Subject: [nas] Nice Wahl column
From: <big_dog@fastmail.fm>
To: NAS <NAS@americakicks.com>
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The Yanks are comin
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/grant_wahl/news/2002/09/19/wahl
_mailbag/
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Fri Sep 20 08:38:43 2002
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 08:39:34 -0700
Subject: [nas] Winner of Mil/Van series to host A-League final/live on FSW 9-28
From: <big_dog@fastmail.fm>
To: NAS <NAS@americakicks.com>
Message-ID: <B9B08F46.BB9%big_dog@fastmail.fm>
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> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
--MS_Mac_OE_3115355974_312816_MIME_Part
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TAMPA, FL =AD United Soccer Leagues announced today the site for the A-League
Championship on September 28. The winner of the Western Conference Finals
featuring the Milwaukee Rampage and Vancouver Whitecaps will host the final=
,
to be aired LIVE on Fox Sports World at 8:00 pm ET.
http://a-league.com/news/2002/news,2002,0717.shtml
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<HEAD>
<TITLE>Winner of Mil/Van series to host A-League final/live on FSW 9-28</TI=
TLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<FONT COLOR=3D"#000066">TAMPA, FL =AD United Soccer Leagues announced today the=
site for the A-League Championship on September 28. The winner of the Weste=
rn Conference Finals featuring the Milwaukee Rampage and Vancouver Whitecaps=
will host the final, to be aired LIVE on Fox Sports World at 8:00 pm ET.<BR=
>
<BR>
http://a-league.com/news/2002/news,2002,0717.shtml </FONT>
</BODY>
</HTML>
--MS_Mac_OE_3115355974_312816_MIME_Part--
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Fri Sep 20 08:46:05 2002
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To: "Kirsten Tautfest" <hori_too@yahoo.com>, <nas@americakicks.com>
Subject: Re: [nas] Richmond v Rochester [R] (1st leg of East semi)
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For anyone interested in this nice little story, here are a couple pictur=
es
of the tike ! :-)=0D
=0D
http://public.fotki.com/pattiea/a-league/rhinos__kickers/p9190176.html=0D
http://public.fotki.com/pattiea/a-league/rhinos__kickers/p9190178.html=0D
=0D
As well as the thread I posted for the Richmond folks about this.=0D
=0D
http://www.usldiscussions.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=3Dget_topic;=
f=3D2
t=3D001955#000000=0D
=0D
-------Original Message-------=0D
=0D
From: Kirsten Tautfest=0D
Date: Thursday, September 19, 2002 23:44:18=0D
To: nas@americakicks.com=0D
Subject: [nas] Richmond v Rochester [R] (1st leg of East semi)=0D
=0D
Score line at the final whistle: 1 - 1=0D
=0D
Game summary:=0D
http://www.richmondkickers.com/news/0919002Rochestergamesum.htm=0D
=0D
My observations:=0D
Good match overall. There was a questionable call in=0D
the box with a 'back pass' to the Rhino's keeper=0D
(Onstad) in the second half. Questionable in the sense=0D
that it wasn't called and probably wasn't due to the=0D
positioning of the ref and the linesman relative to=0D
the ball. To the officials it appeared as a possible=0D
shot on goal. From my angle, with the "Corner Kicks",=0D
it should have been called.=0D
=0D
Fox (Richmond) got red carded early in the second=0D
half. So he will not be available. Demin played a good=0D
portion of the match limping slightly. I think the=0D
only reason that the Rhinos coach did not pull him is=0D
that it may have left a gaping hole in the Rhino's=0D
back line. =0D
=0D
It became clear to me that the main reason that Onstad=0D
had a .75 GAA going into tonight's matchup was due to=0D
the defensive style of play of the Rhinos. Counter=0D
then drop back on D. (Kind of reminded me of MLS Cup=0D
2000, but that's another matter . . .) =0D
=0D
Richmond appeared flatfooted for most of the match.=0D
They need to pick it up if they want to make it past=0D
Rochester to get to Milwaukee. They will be without=0D
Fox, despite being a Defender, he pushed far up the=0D
right wing on the attack. The red card was for a=0D
'last man' offense. Not too rough but the right call,=0D
nonetheless. Henderson scored the goal for Richmond.=0D
They also used all five of their subs. I belive the=0D
Rhinos only used 2.=0D
=0D
=0D
The crowd was nice (3327). A little quiet from time=0D
to time compared to what I'm used to (i.e. wall of=0D
noise). The weather was perfect.=0D
=0D
Other cute observation:=0D
At halftime I noticed a little kid no older than 3=0D
dart past me. He paused and looked toward the pitch=0D
then took off running down the wheelchair ramp. I=0D
glanced over and thought that I spotted his dad who=0D
was engrossed in conversation with friends. Next thing=0D
I know, the kid had slipped through the field gate=0D
near the base of the ramp and was trotting to where=0D
the Kicker bench was warming up. He proceded to warm=0D
up with them. Jogging back and forth and even trying=0D
to run backwards. The Kicker who was nearest the=0D
pressbox side corner was having fun with the kid. Like=0D
it was all normal. Dad finally notices the kid missing=0D
and someone points out to the field. Dad was probably=0D
relieved and amused at the same time. He went down to=0D
the gate and was allowed on the track to get the kid.=0D
The kid didn't come off until it was time to clear the=0D
field for the second half. The kid didn't want to go.=0D
He was having too much fun and wanted to "tell" all=0D
the Kickers who were nearby goodluck with a=0D
"high-five". =0D
Ah, the unintentional halftime shows are the best. :)=0D
=0D
I had a good time. =0D
=0D
If any Corner Kickers are on this list, thank you for=0D
letting me hang out with you. Cheers!=0D
=0D
Kirsten=0D
=0D
=0D
=0D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0D
"We are loud. We are proud. We are from Chicago." - myself on Wild Chicag=
o
re Section 8.=0D
=0D
"Playing with fire is bad for those who end up burning themselves. For
everyone else, it's a great pleasure."=0D
--- Leon Daudet=0D
=0D
__________________________________________________=0D
Do you Yahoo!?=0D
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!=0D
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DDING-LEFT: 7px; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"=20
>
<DIV>For anyone interested in this nice little story, here are a co=
uple=20
pictures of the tike ! :-)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A=20
href=3D"http://public.fotki.com/pattiea/a-league/rhinos__kickers/p9=
190176.html"=20
target=3D_blank>http://public.fotki.com/pattiea/a-league/rhinos__ki=
ckers/p9190176.html</A></DIV>
<DIV><A=20
href=3D"http://public.fotki.com/pattiea/a-league/rhinos__kickers/p9=
190178.html"=20
target=3D_blank>http://public.fotki.com/pattiea/a-league/rhinos__ki=
ckers/p9190178.html</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>As well as the thread I posted for the Richmond folks about=20
this.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A=20
href=3D"http://www.usldiscussions.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ub=
b=3Dget_topic;f=3D2;t=3D001955#000000">http://www.usldiscussions.com/cgi-=
bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=3Dget_topic;f=3D2;t=3D001955#000000</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV id=3DIncrediOriginalMessage><I>-------Original Message-------<=
/I></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV id=3Dreceivestrings>
<DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>From:</B></I> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:hori_too@yahoo.com";>Kirsten Tautfest</A></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>Date:</B></I> Thursd=
ay,=20
September 19, 2002 23:44:18</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>To:</B></I> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:nas@americakicks.com";>nas@americakicks.com</A></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>Subject:</B></I> [na=
s] Richmond=20
v Rochester [R] (1st leg of East semi)</DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>Score line at the final whistle: 1 - 1<BR><BR>Game=
=20
summary:<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.richmondkickers.com/news/0919002Rochestergamesum=
=2Ehtm">http://www.richmondkickers.com/news/0919002Rochestergamesum.htm</=
A><BR><BR>My=20
observations:<BR>Good match overall. There was a questionable call=20
in<BR>the box with a 'back pass' to the Rhino's keeper<BR>(Onstad) =
in the=20
second half. Questionable in the sense<BR>that it wasn't called and=
=20
probably wasn't due to the<BR>positioning of the ref and the linesm=
an=20
relative to<BR>the ball. To the officials it appeared as a=20
possible<BR>shot on goal. From my angle, with the "Corner Kicks",<B=
R>it=20
should have been called.<BR><BR>Fox (Richmond) got red carded early=
in the=20
second<BR>half. So he will not be available. Demin played a=20
good<BR>portion of the match limping slightly. I think the<BR>only =
reason=20
that the Rhinos coach did not pull him is<BR>that it may have left =
a=20
gaping hole in the Rhino's<BR>back line. <BR><BR>It became clear to=
me=20
that the main reason that Onstad<BR>had a .75 GAA going into tonigh=
t's=20
matchup was due to<BR>the defensive style of play of the Rhinos.=20
Counter<BR>then drop back on D. (Kind of reminded me of MLS Cup<BR>=
2000,=20
but that's another matter . . .) <BR><BR>Richmond appeared flatfoot=
ed for=20
most of the match.<BR>They need to pick it up if they want to make =
it=20
past<BR>Rochester to get to Milwaukee. They will be without<BR>Fox,=
=20
despite being a Defender, he pushed far up the<BR>right wing on the=
=20
attack. The red card was for a<BR>'last man' offense. Not too rough=
but=20
the right call,<BR>nonetheless. Henderson scored the goal for=20
Richmond.<BR>They also used all five of their subs. I belive the<BR=
>Rhinos=20
only used 2.<BR><BR><BR>The crowd was nice (3327). A little quiet f=
rom=20
time<BR>to time compared to what I'm used to (i.e. wall of<BR>noise=
). The=20
weather was perfect.<BR><BR>Other cute observation:<BR>At halftime =
I=20
noticed a little kid no older than 3<BR>dart past me. He paused and=
looked=20
toward the pitch<BR>then took off running down the wheelchair ramp.=
=20
I<BR>glanced over and thought that I spotted his dad who<BR>was eng=
rossed=20
in conversation with friends. Next thing<BR>I know, the kid had sli=
pped=20
through the field gate<BR>near the base of the ramp and was trottin=
g to=20
where<BR>the Kicker bench was warming up. He proceded to warm<BR>up=
with=20
them. Jogging back and forth and even trying<BR>to run backwards. T=
he=20
Kicker who was nearest the<BR>pressbox side corner was having fun w=
ith the=20
kid. Like<BR>it was all normal. Dad finally notices the kid missing=
<BR>and=20
someone points out to the field. Dad was probably<BR>relieved and a=
mused=20
at the same time. He went down to<BR>the gate and was allowed on th=
e track=20
to get the kid.<BR>The kid didn't come off until it was time to cle=
ar=20
the<BR>field for the second half. The kid didn't want to go.<BR>He =
was=20
having too much fun and wanted to "tell" all<BR>the Kickers who wer=
e=20
nearby goodluck with a<BR>"high-five". <BR>Ah, the unintentional ha=
lftime=20
shows are the best. :)<BR><BR>I had a good time. <BR><BR>If any Cor=
ner=20
Kickers are on this list, thank you for<BR>letting me hang out with=
you.=20
Cheers!<BR><BR>Kirsten<BR><BR><BR><BR>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>"We are lo=
ud. We are proud.=20
We are from Chicago." - myself on Wild Chicago re Section=20
8.<BR><BR>"Playing with fire is bad for those who end up burning=20
themselves. For everyone else, it's a great pleasure."<BR>--- Leon=20
Daudet<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR=
>Do you=20
Yahoo!?<BR>New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://sbc.yahoo.com";>http://sbc.yahoo.com</A><BR><BR>---<B=
R>NAS is=20
hosted by America Kicks (<A=20
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>)<BR>To=20
subscribe or unsubscribe: <A=20
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post, send an email to <A=20
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Fri Sep 20 08:52:57 2002
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User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.5
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 08:53:39 -0700
Subject: [nas] MLS Newslinks 09-20 (16)
From: <big_dog@fastmail.fm>
To: NAS <NAS@americakicks.com>
Message-ID: <B9B09293.BC2%big_dog@fastmail.fm>
In-Reply-To: <B9B09026.BBE%mjazz@localnet.com>
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DC's Alavanja injured in car acident
http://www.mlsnet.com/content/02/dc0919alavanja.html
Rasov listed day to day after MRI
http://www.mlsnet.com/content/02/chi0919razov.html
MLS Newsstand 9-20 (10)
http://www.mlsnet.com/content/02/mls0920newsstand.html
-- Burn wins in bid for home-field advantage (Fort Worth Star-Telegram)
-- All's well that ends well for Vaca, Burn (Dallas Morning News)
-- Old hands pace charge for Rapids (Rocky Mountain News)
-- Notebook: Cunningham's two-year point total unequaled in MLS (Columbus
Dispatch)
-- Fire signs top Botswana player (Chicago Tribune)
-- Wynalda looks for classy exit (Chicago Daily Herald)
-- Newark hosts Metros (Bergen Record)
-- MetroStars May Play in Newark (Newsday)
-- Finalists Chosen for Honda Award (New York Times)
-- MetroStars will call Newark home for playoffs (Jersey Journal)
Palace:The Clean Sheet, Is Cletus El Loco
http://www.mlsnet.com/content/02/tino0919palace.html
Rules in review: Denial of a goal scoring opprotunity
http://www.mlsnet.com/content/02/mls0919denial.html
Dieffenbach: Struggling to the finish
http://www.soccer365.com/US_home/Major_League_Soccer/page_24_39259.shtml
DOK's prognosis week 27
http://www.cybersoccernews.com/columnists/kadah/020919dokweek27.shtml
--MS_Mac_OE_3115356819_363639_MIME_Part
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<HEAD>
<TITLE>MLS Newslinks 09-20 (16)</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>DC's Alavanja injured in car acident<BR>
http://www.mlsnet.com/content/02/dc0919alavanja.html<BR>
<BR>
Rasov listed day to day after MRI<BR>
http://www.mlsnet.com/content/02/chi0919razov.html<BR>
<BR>
MLS Newsstand 9-20 (10)<BR>
http://www.mlsnet.com/content/02/mls0920newsstand.html<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3D"4"><B>--</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#7FFF00"><U>Burn wins in bid for home=
-field advantage </U></FONT>(Fort Worth Star-Telegram)<BR>
<B>--</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>All's well that ends well for Vaca, Burn=
</U></FONT>(Dallas Morning News)<BR>
<B>--</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>Old hands pace charge for Rapids </U></F=
ONT>(Rocky Mountain News)<BR>
<B>--</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>Notebook: Cunningham's two-year point to=
tal unequaled in MLS </U></FONT>(Columbus Dispatch)<BR>
<B>--</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>Fire signs top Botswana player </U></FON=
T>(Chicago Tribune)<BR>
<B>--</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>Wynalda looks for classy exit </U></FONT=
>(Chicago Daily Herald)<BR>
<B>--</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>Newark hosts Metros </U></FONT>(Bergen R=
ecord)<BR>
<B>--</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>MetroStars May Play in Newark </U></FONT=
>(Newsday)<BR>
<B>--</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>Finalists Chosen for Honda Award </U></F=
ONT>(New York Times)<BR>
<B>--</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>MetroStars will call Newark home for pla=
yoffs </U></FONT>(Jersey Journal)<BR>
<BR>
Palace:The Clean Sheet, Is Cletus El Loco<BR>
http://www.mlsnet.com/content/02/tino0919palace.html<BR>
<BR>
Rules in review: Denial of a goal scoring opprotunity<BR>
http://www.mlsnet.com/content/02/mls0919denial.html<BR>
<BR>
Dieffenbach: Struggling to the finish<BR>
http://www.soccer365.com/US_home/Major_League_Soccer/page_24_39259.shtml<BR=
>
<BR>
DOK's prognosis week 27<BR>
http://www.cybersoccernews.com/columnists/kadah/020919dokweek27.shtml<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><BR>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Fri Sep 20 08:56:18 2002
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Reply-To: <crazo@tampabay.rr.com>
From: "Timothy D. Ristorcelli" <crazo@tampabay.rr.com>
To: "NAS" <nas@americakicks.com>
Subject: [nas] US Soccer News Links 09-20-02
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:57:01 -0400
Message-ID: <NFBBIPKNNAKPKDLEMCLEEECJCDAA.crazo@tampabay.rr.com>
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US Soccer News Links 09-20-02
http://www.sams-army.com/index.php/Mlist=news/Nyear=2002/Nmonth=09/Nday=20
____________________________________
Timothy D. Ristorcelli, MBA
crazo@tampabay.rr.com
Check out: http://www.sams-army.com
ICQ: 1361610
____________________________________
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Fri Sep 20 09:13:31 2002
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From: "mike boettge" <popeye_mb@hotmail.com>
To: nas@americakicks.com
Subject: Re: [nas] US Men rise to eighth inthe world in latest FIFA rankings
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 16:13:40 +0000
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It might have been Seamus Malin(sp?) who said 'the FIFA rankings are good
for one thing only--starting pub arguments.'
I think his theory is holding up pretty well :)
All in fun, gentle-people. Please, no flames.
MikeB,StL,Mo,USA
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Fri Sep 20 09:19:52 2002
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 09:20:40 -0700
Subject: Re: [nas] US Men rise to eighth inthe world in latest FIFA
rankings
From: <big_dog@fastmail.fm>
To: mike boettge <popeye_mb@hotmail.com>,
<nas@americakicks.com>
Message-ID: <B9B098E8.BCE%big_dog@fastmail.fm>
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Grant Wahl address the subject as well this week:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/grant_wahl/news/2002/09/19/wahl
_mailbag/
From: "mike boettge" <popeye_mb@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 16:13:40 +0000
To: nas@americakicks.com
Subject: Re: [nas] US Men rise to eighth inthe world in latest FIFA rankings
It might have been Seamus Malin(sp?) who said 'the FIFA rankings are good
for one thing only--starting pub arguments.'
I think his theory is holding up pretty well :)
All in fun, gentle-people. Please, no flames.
MikeB,StL,Mo,USA
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
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<BODY>
Grant Wahl address the subject as well this week:<BR>
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/grant_wahl/news/2002/09/19/wah=
l_mailbag/<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<B>From: </B>"mike boettge" <popeye_mb@hotmail.com><BR>
<B>Date: </B>Fri, 20 Sep 2002 16:13:40 +0000<BR>
<B>To: </B>nas@americakicks.com<BR>
<B>Subject: </B>Re: [nas] US Men rise to eighth inthe world in latest FIFA =
rankings<BR>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT>It might have been Seamus Malin(sp?) who said 'the FIFA ran=
kings are good <BR>
for one thing only--starting pub arguments.'<BR>
I think his theory is holding up pretty well :)<BR>
All in fun, gentle-people. Please, no flames.<BR>
MikeB,StL,Mo,USA<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Fri Sep 20 10:04:13 2002
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:04:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kirsten Tautfest <hori_too@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [nas] Metro to play in Newark if they make the playoffs
To: nas@americakicks.com
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Article posted earlier said stadium will be configured
for soccer and cap expanded to 8500.
A good reason to raise ticket prices a bit. Scarcity
needs to be emphasized by the Metro's marketing and
ticket sales staff. Plus season ticket holders should
be able to have first dibs on tix before public sale
-- given the short time period - maybe only a weekday
like Monday. Then Tuesday full sale.
The MLS needs smaller venues. Granted this is a bit
too small. Even 15K is a wee bit small for Chicago.
20-25K expandable to 30K is ideal and on par with the
vast majority of soccer stadia in the world.
Wizardofold, large rock events such as the Rollings
Stones typically have a long set up time in advance of
the actual performance, then tear down. I worked site
security at Soldier Field for the Stones and U2. This
is no little load in beginning at 8am and be ready for
a 7pm show we are dealing with here. To build the
lighting towers, set up chairs, all the special
effects, etc takes many many days. The Giants
henceforth are on the road during this time also. Just
be grateful the Metrostars and whoever they will meet
in the playoffs (should they get there) will not be
playing on the trashed field. Oh yeah, it will be
resodded I'm sure, but not enough for it to take
proper hold in the ground and will look awful after 1
quarter of marching up and down the field.
Kirsten
--- AbraRob@aol.com wrote:
> At least they are re-sodding the infield.
> Also, no cheap tickets. $25 mimum in advance. Season
> ticketholders are the
> beneficiaries, especially the ones who bought he
> cheap seats ($15 aprox.),
> like me.
> One thing that will fun, ESC will sound be pretty
> loud in that place. Just
> hope they keep the cursing to a minimum as they're
> might be lots of kids.
> Cheers!
> Robert.
>
> In a message dated 9/20/02 2:58:29 AM,
> TheWizardofld@aol.com writes:
>
> << Because the NJSEA does not care one bit about the
> MetroStars, and booked
> the
> Rolling Stones fo an entire month, the Metros have
> been forced to plans for
> an alternate site incase they make the playoffs.
> The Metros will play in
> Newarks Riverfront Stadium, a minor league baseball
> stadium. I am not 100%
> sure of the attendance but will say off hand that it
> is 10,000 max! >>
>
>
> ---
> NAS is hosted by America Kicks
> (http://www.americakicks.com)
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=====
"We are loud. We are proud. We are from Chicago." - myself on Wild Chicago re Section 8.
"Playing with fire is bad for those who end up burning themselves. For everyone else, it's a great pleasure."
--- Leon Daudet
__________________________________________________
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Fri Sep 20 10:05:42 2002
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:05:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kirsten Tautfest <hori_too@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [nas] Hey Bruce --
To: Niall Swan <nialls@rcn.com>, Casbahman@aol.com, nas@americakicks.com
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In the immigration statues, last I checked, there is a
clause stating that citizenship can be rushed for a
sports player.
--- Niall Swan <nialls@rcn.com> wrote:
> Anyway, if a player is young, and he is good he
> could still play for the
> US. Three years after marrying someone (if he was on
> a green card) he can
> become a US Citizen. Or if not the marrying type, 5
> years after being here
> by himself, he can become a U.S. citizen. So, if I
> am 20, I could become a
> US nats player by 24-26 - lots of time to develop my
> game. So the door
> ain't shut!
>
=====
"We are loud. We are proud. We are from Chicago." - myself on Wild Chicago re Section 8.
"Playing with fire is bad for those who end up burning themselves. For everyone else, it's a great pleasure."
--- Leon Daudet
__________________________________________________
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Fri Sep 20 10:11:38 2002
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 13:08:24 -0400
To: Kirsten Tautfest <hori_too@yahoo.com>,Casbahman@aol.com,
nas@americakicks.com
From: Niall Swan <nialls@rcn.com>
Subject: Re: [nas] Hey Bruce --
In-Reply-To: <20020920170550.35843.qmail@web11902.mail.yahoo.com>
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yup, for sure in other countries, and that sounds right for the US too.
Thanks Kirsten - do we have an immigration lawyer in our midst ;-)
Niall
The Soccer Resort
www.soccerresort.com
Soccer Vacations in the Sun
At 10:05 AM 9/20/02 -0700, Kirsten Tautfest wrote:
>In the immigration statues, last I checked, there is a
>clause stating that citizenship can be rushed for a
>sports player.
>
>--- Niall Swan <nialls@rcn.com> wrote:
> > Anyway, if a player is young, and he is good he
> > could still play for the
> > US. Three years after marrying someone (if he was on
> > a green card) he can
> > become a US Citizen. Or if not the marrying type, 5
> > years after being here
> > by himself, he can become a U.S. citizen. So, if I
> > am 20, I could become a
> > US nats player by 24-26 - lots of time to develop my
> > game. So the door
> > ain't shut!
> >
>
>
>=====
>"We are loud. We are proud. We are from Chicago." - myself on Wild Chicago
>re Section 8.
>
>"Playing with fire is bad for those who end up burning themselves. For
>everyone else, it's a great pleasure."
> --- Leon Daudet
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
>http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
>---
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Fri Sep 20 10:12:43 2002
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for <nas@americakicks.com>; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 12:12:51 -0500
From: "Jack Kaufmann" <jk649@bellatlantic.net>
To: <nas@americakicks.com>
Subject: FW: [nas] Hey Bruce -- p!ss off!
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 13:10:55 -0400
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I had thought MLS had no choice but to treat green card holders the same
as citizens because of discrimination/employment laws. A green card
means you are entitled to work in this country on the same basis as
citizens, and to not hire someone because he is not a citizen is to
discriminate on the basis of national origin.
-----Original Message-----
From: nas-owner@americakicks.com [mailto:nas-owner@americakicks.com] On
Behalf Of Kevin Lindstrom
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 11:57 PM
To: NAS; Burn List
Subject: [nas] Hey Bruce -- p!ss off!
Deep in this wonderful article about the USA WC effort, you get a few
words from our boy Bruce.
On MLS's decision to allow green-card holders not to count as
international
players: "The green-card ruling is not in the best interests of the
national team. Look at Dallas. How many of those guys are Americans? But
that's life."
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/grant_wahl/news/2002/09/19/
wahl
_mailbag/
You have a problem with exactly who now? Chris GBandi ought to be
considered for the US national team and Oscar Pareja loves the Burn more
than any player in this league loves their team -- and I challenge
anyone to show otherwise.
First off, let's answer your rhetorical question. Matt Jordan, Jason
Kreis, Paul Broome, Ryan Suarez, Bobby Rhine, Eddie Johnson, Chad
Deering -- of the ones getting regular or semi-regular pt. (I will
admit, I am not completely sure about Antonio Martinez.)
Second, what is the point? Where is the US player who isn't getting pt
because of those players? Granted, there could be a problem if you had
three SIs and eights players with green cards, but you don't have that.
Or what about your favorite player, Marco Etcheverry? You know, the one
who is now out of the playoffs -- again? Doesn't he have a green card?
And let's turn that around -- Marco has his kids here. What if they (or
other soccer-talented-parent-raised-kids) turn out to be as good as
their parents and want to play well for the US? Are you going to turn
them down because their parents weren't "born citizens"?
Last I checked, Bruce, this was supposed to still be the land of
opportunity, and what better way to develop and grow the talent base
than bringing in players willing to come to what used to be and to a
certain extent still is a second-rate but growing and developing league?
Do you think this league would be anywhere without El Pibe, El Diablo,
Leonel Alvarez, Mauricio Cienfuegos, Robert Warzycha, Carlos EFFIN
Llamosa!!!!, Jaime Moreno, Peter Nowak, Diego Gutierrez, etc.?
Or where would Landon have been if all he had to play against and with
while growing up in Cali were anglos?
It is a strength, not a weakness, @$$hole!
Someone might want to point this obvious blind spot to him -- good as he
is, it is this kind of idiocy that will keep the US from truly becoming
a world power. It really is that simple.
But hey. Lo que sea.
So Sez Drummer Boy http://flashpages.prodigy.net/klindstr/home.html
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Fri Sep 20 10:14:45 2002
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:14:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kirsten Tautfest <hori_too@yahoo.com>
Subject: [nas] Alavanja
To: NAS <NAS@americakicks.com>
In-Reply-To: <B9B09293.BC2%big_dog@fastmail.fm>
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--- big_dog@fastmail.fm wrote:
>
>
>
> DC's Alavanja injured in car acident
> http://www.mlsnet.com/content/02/dc0919alavanja.html
Ow, I know what a broken collarbone (aka clavicle)
feels like.
I hope that he has a speedy recovery and is back in
fine form for 2003. :)
Kirsten
=====
"We are loud. We are proud. We are from Chicago." - myself on Wild Chicago re Section 8.
"Playing with fire is bad for those who end up burning themselves. For everyone else, it's a great pleasure."
--- Leon Daudet
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Fri Sep 20 10:16:34 2002
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:16:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kirsten Tautfest <hori_too@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [nas] Hey Bruce --
To: nas@americakicks.com
In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20020920130654.00c44580@pop.rcn.com>
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No, but I know a Barn Burner who is one.
Plus I read them a couple of years ago myself since I
was married to a Mexican.
--- Niall Swan <nialls@rcn.com> wrote:
> yup, for sure in other countries, and that sounds
> right for the US too.
> Thanks Kirsten - do we have an immigration lawyer in
> our midst ;-)
>
> Niall
>
> The Soccer Resort
> www.soccerresort.com
> Soccer Vacations in the Sun
>
>
>
>
> At 10:05 AM 9/20/02 -0700, Kirsten Tautfest wrote:
> >In the immigration statues, last I checked, there
> is a
> >clause stating that citizenship can be rushed for a
> >sports player.
> >
> >--- Niall Swan <nialls@rcn.com> wrote:
> > > Anyway, if a player is young, and he is good he
> > > could still play for the
> > > US. Three years after marrying someone (if he
> was on
> > > a green card) he can
> > > become a US Citizen. Or if not the marrying
> type, 5
> > > years after being here
> > > by himself, he can become a U.S. citizen. So, if
> I
> > > am 20, I could become a
> > > US nats player by 24-26 - lots of time to
> develop my
> > > game. So the door
> > > ain't shut!
> > >
> >
> >
> >=====
> >"We are loud. We are proud. We are from Chicago." -
> myself on Wild Chicago
> >re Section 8.
> >
> >"Playing with fire is bad for those who end up
> burning themselves. For
> >everyone else, it's a great pleasure."
> > --- Leon Daudet
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
> >http://sbc.yahoo.com
> >
> >---
> >NAS is hosted by America Kicks
> (http://www.americakicks.com)
> >To subscribe or unsubscribe:
> http://nas.americakicks.com
> >To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.com
>
=====
"We are loud. We are proud. We are from Chicago." - myself on Wild Chicago re Section 8.
"Playing with fire is bad for those who end up burning themselves. For everyone else, it's a great pleasure."
--- Leon Daudet
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Fri Sep 20 10:20:43 2002
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 13:17:26 -0400
To: "Jack Kaufmann" <jk649@bellatlantic.net>,<nas@americakicks.com>
From: Niall Swan <nialls@rcn.com>
Subject: Re: FW: [nas] Hey Bruce -- p!ss off!
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But this is different, when representing your country. Just like you need
to be naturalized when you work for the department of state (albeit
representing at a different level).
This is the land of opportunity - but you gotta be American (legally at
least) to represent America!
Niall
The Soccer Resort
www.soccerresort.com
Soccer Vacations in the Sun
At 01:10 PM 9/20/02 -0400, Jack Kaufmann wrote:
>I had thought MLS had no choice but to treat green card holders the same
>as citizens because of discrimination/employment laws. A green card
>means you are entitled to work in this country on the same basis as
>citizens, and to not hire someone because he is not a citizen is to
>discriminate on the basis of national origin.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nas-owner@americakicks.com [mailto:nas-owner@americakicks.com] On
>Behalf Of Kevin Lindstrom
>Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 11:57 PM
>To: NAS; Burn List
>Subject: [nas] Hey Bruce -- p!ss off!
>
>
>Deep in this wonderful article about the USA WC effort, you get a few
>words from our boy Bruce.
>
>On MLS's decision to allow green-card holders not to count as
>international
>players: "The green-card ruling is not in the best interests of the
>national team. Look at Dallas. How many of those guys are Americans? But
>that's life."
>
>http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/grant_wahl/news/2002/09/19/
>wahl
>_mailbag/
>
>You have a problem with exactly who now? Chris GBandi ought to be
>considered for the US national team and Oscar Pareja loves the Burn more
>than any player in this league loves their team -- and I challenge
>anyone to show otherwise.
>
>First off, let's answer your rhetorical question. Matt Jordan, Jason
>Kreis, Paul Broome, Ryan Suarez, Bobby Rhine, Eddie Johnson, Chad
>Deering -- of the ones getting regular or semi-regular pt. (I will
>admit, I am not completely sure about Antonio Martinez.)
>
>Second, what is the point? Where is the US player who isn't getting pt
>because of those players? Granted, there could be a problem if you had
>three SIs and eights players with green cards, but you don't have that.
>
>Or what about your favorite player, Marco Etcheverry? You know, the one
>who is now out of the playoffs -- again? Doesn't he have a green card?
>
>And let's turn that around -- Marco has his kids here. What if they (or
>other soccer-talented-parent-raised-kids) turn out to be as good as
>their parents and want to play well for the US? Are you going to turn
>them down because their parents weren't "born citizens"?
>
>Last I checked, Bruce, this was supposed to still be the land of
>opportunity, and what better way to develop and grow the talent base
>than bringing in players willing to come to what used to be and to a
>certain extent still is a second-rate but growing and developing league?
>Do you think this league would be anywhere without El Pibe, El Diablo,
>Leonel Alvarez, Mauricio Cienfuegos, Robert Warzycha, Carlos EFFIN
>Llamosa!!!!, Jaime Moreno, Peter Nowak, Diego Gutierrez, etc.?
>
>Or where would Landon have been if all he had to play against and with
>while growing up in Cali were anglos?
>
>It is a strength, not a weakness, @$$hole!
>
>Someone might want to point this obvious blind spot to him -- good as he
>is, it is this kind of idiocy that will keep the US from truly becoming
>a world power. It really is that simple.
>
>But hey. Lo que sea.
>
>So Sez Drummer Boy http://flashpages.prodigy.net/klindstr/home.html
>
>
>
>---
>NAS is hosted by America Kicks (http://www.americakicks.com)
>To subscribe or unsubscribe: http://nas.americakicks.com
>To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.com
>
>
>---
>NAS is hosted by America Kicks (http://www.americakicks.com)
>To subscribe or unsubscribe: http://nas.americakicks.com
>To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.com
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Fri Sep 20 10:30:01 2002
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From: Kim Kolb <kolbkl@erols.com>
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To: Niall Swan <nialls@rcn.com>
CC: Jack Kaufmann <jk649@bellatlantic.net>, nas@americakicks.com
Subject: Re: FW: [nas] Hey Bruce -- p!ss off!
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I think you're talking about a couple of different things.
In MLS Green Card holders do not count against the foreign player limit
(of 3). This is due to the labor laws of the US. If you have a green
card, then you are -- employment wise-- the same as a citizen. You can
work and live here.
Representing the US in national soccer matches has nothing, directly,
to do with the imigration or labor laws of the USA. The rules governing
who can play for what country are determined by FIFA.
Niall Swan wrote:
> But this is different, when representing your country. Just like you
> need to be naturalized when you work for the department of state
> (albeit representing at a different level).
>
> This is the land of opportunity - but you gotta be American (legally
> at least) to represent America!
>
> Niall
>
> The Soccer Resort
> www.soccerresort.com
> Soccer Vacations in the Sun
>
> At 01:10 PM 9/20/02 -0400, Jack Kaufmann wrote:
>
>> I had thought MLS had no choice but to treat green card holders the same
>> as citizens because of discrimination/employment laws. A green card
>> means you are entitled to work in this country on the same basis as
>> citizens, and to not hire someone because he is not a citizen is to
>> discriminate on the basis of national origin.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nas-owner@americakicks.com [mailto:nas-owner@americakicks.com] On
>> Behalf Of Kevin Lindstrom
>> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 11:57 PM
>> To: NAS; Burn List
>> Subject: [nas] Hey Bruce -- p!ss off!
>>
>>
>> Deep in this wonderful article about the USA WC effort, you get a few
>> words from our boy Bruce.
>>
>> On MLS's decision to allow green-card holders not to count as
>> international
>> players: "The green-card ruling is not in the best interests of the
>> national team. Look at Dallas. How many of those guys are Americans? But
>> that's life."
>>
>> http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/grant_wahl/news/2002/09/19/
>> wahl
>> _mailbag/
>>
>> You have a problem with exactly who now? Chris GBandi ought to be
>> considered for the US national team and Oscar Pareja loves the Burn more
>> than any player in this league loves their team -- and I challenge
>> anyone to show otherwise.
>>
>> First off, let's answer your rhetorical question. Matt Jordan, Jason
>> Kreis, Paul Broome, Ryan Suarez, Bobby Rhine, Eddie Johnson, Chad
>> Deering -- of the ones getting regular or semi-regular pt. (I will
>> admit, I am not completely sure about Antonio Martinez.)
>>
>> Second, what is the point? Where is the US player who isn't getting pt
>> because of those players? Granted, there could be a problem if you had
>> three SIs and eights players with green cards, but you don't have that.
>>
>> Or what about your favorite player, Marco Etcheverry? You know, the one
>> who is now out of the playoffs -- again? Doesn't he have a green card?
>>
>> And let's turn that around -- Marco has his kids here. What if they (or
>> other soccer-talented-parent-raised-kids) turn out to be as good as
>> their parents and want to play well for the US? Are you going to turn
>> them down because their parents weren't "born citizens"?
>>
>> Last I checked, Bruce, this was supposed to still be the land of
>> opportunity, and what better way to develop and grow the talent base
>> than bringing in players willing to come to what used to be and to a
>> certain extent still is a second-rate but growing and developing league?
>> Do you think this league would be anywhere without El Pibe, El Diablo,
>> Leonel Alvarez, Mauricio Cienfuegos, Robert Warzycha, Carlos EFFIN
>> Llamosa!!!!, Jaime Moreno, Peter Nowak, Diego Gutierrez, etc.?
>>
>> Or where would Landon have been if all he had to play against and with
>> while growing up in Cali were anglos?
>>
>> It is a strength, not a weakness, @$$hole!
>>
>> Someone might want to point this obvious blind spot to him -- good as he
>> is, it is this kind of idiocy that will keep the US from truly becoming
>> a world power. It really is that simple.
>>
>> But hey. Lo que sea.
>>
>> So Sez Drummer Boy http://flashpages.prodigy.net/klindstr/home.html
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
>
> ---
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> To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.com
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Fri Sep 20 10:49:25 2002
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To: NAS <nas@americakicks.com>
Subject: [nas] Notre Dame's Gain Is Now Soccer's Loss
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http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/20/sports/ncaafootball/20VECS.html?tntemail1
An interesting bit from the article to stir things up:
Walton played both sports at the Bishop's School in San Diego --
football in the fall, soccer in the spring. He was all-state in football
as a senior, but received only one scholarship offer, from Fresno State.
So he enrolled at Notre Dame to play soccer, with the promise that he
could try out for football eventually.
He had 10 goals and 7 assists as a freshman, but said, with no trace of
brashness, that "college soccer was a step down" from club soccer.
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Fri Sep 20 10:54:19 2002
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Subject: [nas] Taking it to the next level
From: <big_dog@fastmail.fm>
To: NAS <NAS@americakicks.com>
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by are own Kevin Lidstrom,
see: www.sams-army.com
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Fri Sep 20 11:13:40 2002
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 14:09:23 -0400
From: Buzahn@aol.com
To: SK131281@exchange.DAYTONOH.NCR.com, nas@americakicks.com
Subject: Re: [nas] Burn vs DC United [R]
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In a message dated Fri, 20 Sep 2002 9:04:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, SK131281@exchange.DAYTONOH.NCR.com writes:
> THAT is what MLS needs to sell ! I think my ribs hurt just from seeing Bonseau (sp?) crash into the post.
>
Ouch, that one hurt and I was surprised he kept going afterwards.
> A cracker of a match - although the playoffs aren't quite the same w/out DCU.
>
I'll shed a tear for them...but only one. ;-)
> Importantly for the National Squad (maybe...), did Ben Olsen look damn good, or was it just me ?
>
Good to see that guy running at full speed again.
> Forza Crew from here on out !!
>
Naaaa.
Ed :-)
> ps - Those who say Robbie Fowler is the ugliest man in
> football have never seen Etch.
>
Why do you think they call him El Diablo?
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Fri Sep 20 11:15:06 2002
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:15:58 -0700
Subject: [nas] FW: FIFA set for player transfer exemption
From: <big_dog@fastmail.fm>
To: NAS <NAS@americakicks.com>
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Fri Sep 20 11:16:22 2002
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:17:14 -0700
Subject: [nas] FW: Another Yank at Arsenal possible
From: <big_dog@fastmail.fm>
To: NAS <NAS@americakicks.com>
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Karbasiyoon:
http://www.planetfootball.com/article.asp?id=109659&cpid=8&title=Danny+leani
ng+towards+being+a+Wenger+boy"/>
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Fri Sep 20 11:19:15 2002
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:19:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rick Mangi <rmangi@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [nas] FW: Another Yank at Arsenal possible
To: big_dog@fastmail.fm, NAS <NAS@americakicks.com>
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Funny, he looks just like dono!
--- big_dog@fastmail.fm wrote:
> Karbasiyoon:
>
http://www.planetfootball.com/article.asp?id=109659&cpid=8&title=Danny+leani
> ng+towards+being+a+Wenger+boy"/>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Fri Sep 20 11:55:46 2002
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:55:51 -0700
From: Brad May <bmay@rambus.com>
Subject: Re: [nas] Notre Dame's Gain Is Now Soccer's Loss
To: NAS <nas@americakicks.com>
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Thanks for the link, Chris. Maybe no NFL teams will want to draft Shane
because of his size and soccer will have chance to get him back. But I
imagine he would rather try his luck as a walk-on at NFL camp than get
by on a P-40 salary.
Chris Hilton wrote:
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/20/sports/ncaafootball/20VECS.html?tntemail1
>
> An interesting bit from the article to stir things up:
>
> Walton played both sports at the Bishop's School in San Diego --
> football in the fall, soccer in the spring. He was all-state in football
> as a senior, but received only one scholarship offer, from Fresno State.
> So he enrolled at Notre Dame to play soccer, with the promise that he
> could try out for football eventually.
>
> He had 10 goals and 7 assists as a freshman, but said, with no trace of
> brashness, that "college soccer was a step down" from club soccer.
>
> ---
> NAS is hosted by America Kicks (http://www.americakicks.com)
> To subscribe or unsubscribe: http://nas.americakicks.com
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Fri Sep 20 12:00:57 2002
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From: "Chris Allen" <csallen@charter.net>
Organization: Political Science Dept / University of Geor
To: NAS <NAS@americakicks.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 15:01:54 -0400
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On 20 Sep 2002 at 10:14, Kirsten Tautfest wrote:
> Ow, I know what a broken collarbone (aka clavicle)
> feels like.
Me too, Kirsten. I broke mine about a year and a half ago, and it took me
2 months to be ready to go again (but I'm a lot older than Alavanja).
> I hope that he has a speedy recovery and is back in
> fine form for 2003. :)
Unfortunately for him and DCU, that's when it will have to be.
Cheers, Chris
Christpher S. Allen
csallen@charter.net
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Fri Sep 20 12:03:41 2002
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From: Jason Benfield <Jason.Benfield@genband.com>
To: NAS <NAS@americakicks.com>
Subject: RE: [nas] Alavanja
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"back in fine form"
Was he ever?
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Allen [mailto:csallen@charter.net]
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 2:02 PM
To: NAS
Subject: Re: [nas] Alavanja
On 20 Sep 2002 at 10:14, Kirsten Tautfest wrote:
> Ow, I know what a broken collarbone (aka clavicle)
> feels like.
Me too, Kirsten. I broke mine about a year and a half ago, and it took me
2 months to be ready to go again (but I'm a lot older than Alavanja).
> I hope that he has a speedy recovery and is back in
> fine form for 2003. :)
Unfortunately for him and DCU, that's when it will have to be.
Cheers, Chris
Christpher S. Allen
csallen@charter.net
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Fri Sep 20 12:43:29 2002
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From: Casbahman@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 15:43:30 EDT
Subject: Re: [nas] US Men rise to eighth inthe world in latest FIFA rankings
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In a message dated 9/20/2002 9:17:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
popeye_mb@hotmail.com writes:
> It might have been Seamus Malin(sp?) who said 'the FIFA rankings are good
> for one thing only--starting pub arguments.'
> I think his theory is holding up pretty well :)
That is about the most logical thing I've heard said during the whole
discussion.
Darrin
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 9/20/2002 9:17:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time, popeye_mb@hotmail.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">It might have been Seamus Malin(sp?) who said 'the FIFA rankings are good <BR>
for one thing only--starting pub arguments.'<BR>
I think his theory is holding up pretty well :)</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
That is about the most logical thing I've heard said during the whole discussion.<BR>
<BR>
Darrin</FONT></HTML>
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Fri Sep 20 13:30:38 2002
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 13:30:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kirsten Tautfest <hori_too@yahoo.com>
Subject: [nas] MLS Ahootout This weekend + WUSA all-star match!
To: nas@americakicks.com, mls-L@topica.com, chicago-fire@yahoogroups.com
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FRIDAY - SEPTEMBER 20, 2002
WUSA ALL-STAR MATCH
4pm ET on PAX
Live from Portland, OR.
Rosters available at http://www.wusa.com
Kansas City Wizards at Colorado Rapids - 9:00 p.m. ET
Metro Sports
DIRECTV: 794
DISHNET: not available
SATURDAY - SEPTEMBER 21, 2002
MetroStars at New England Revolution - 7:30 p.m. ET
MSG, FOX Sports New England
DIRECTV: 794
DISHNET: 457
Los Angeles Galaxy at San Jose Earthquakes - 10:00
p.m. ET
KCAL
DIRECTV: 795
DISHNET: 460
SUNDAY - SEPTEMBER 22, 2002
Columbus Crew at Chicago Fire - 4:00 p.m. ET
Sport TV !
DIRECTV: 794
DISHNET: not available
END OF MLS REGULAR SEASON
=====
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Fri Sep 20 13:51:53 2002
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 13:51:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Russell Campbell <rcampb61@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [nas] Hey Bruce -- p!ss off!
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--- Casbahman@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 9/19/2002 8:58:08 PM Pacific
> Daylight Time,
> klindstr@flash.net writes:
>
>
> > And let's turn that around -- Marco has his kids
> here. What if they (or
> > other soccer-talented-parent-raised-kids) turn out
> to be as good as their
> > parents and want to play well for the US? Are you
> going to turn them down
> > because their parents weren't "born citizens"?
>
[casbahman's response deleted because I want to
address something specific in the above section of
Kevin's original post.]
If Marco or any other player, green carded or not, has
children born in the US the United States considers
them United States citizens. There used to be a
period of waiting while that status was temporary
until the child was old enough (16 or 18) to make a
choice of citizenship I think but I do not know if
that is still in effect. Any child born in the US can
be considered elligible to play for the US NT programs
right up until he/she has chosen to play for another
countrie's national team.
=====
-russ
http://home.attbi.com/~rcampb61
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 15:03:45 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jim Goloboy <goloboy@uiuc.edu>
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Subject: Re: [nas] MLS Playoff Scenarios
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On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, Chris Allen wrote:
> On 16 Sep 2002 at 21:48, Bill Quigley wrote:
>
> > At 07:46 PM 9/16/2002 -0700, Jay Hipps wrote:
> > >Somebody at MLS spent a lot of time putting this together...
> >
> >
> > Reminds me of the NFL playoff scenarios that you see in the papers late in
> > the season.
>
> I'm still waiting for an explantion for why it's not: 1) Points, 2)
> Goal Diff, and 3) Goals Scored.
My guesses would be:
1. Unbalanced schedule makes goal differential less useful (Of course it
also has the same effect on points).
2. Goal differential might be easier to manipulate (teams may find it
advantageous to intentionally allow goals to affect the playoff seeding
and face an opponent of their choice).
3. That's how the other leagues here do it.
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To post, send an email to nas@americakicks.comFrom <nas-owner@americakicks.com> Tue Sep 17 14:11:09 2002